Comments on: It Isn’t Gridcrash that Makes the Lights Go Out http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Sun, 20 Jul 2008 00:58:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: Ponce http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-5389 Ponce Thu, 08 May 2008 21:46:39 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-5389 Getting ready for the past nine years......but still........"To be ready is not"... Ponce Getting ready for the past nine years……but still……..”To be ready is not”… Ponce

]]> By: yooper http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-620 yooper Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:53:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-620 Sharon, I just have to ask you, how would millions and millions work without power? What would they do without money? How would banks survive? Wall Street? How long do you think the local supermarket would be open? How long do you think the "meals on wheels program" would last here in America? How long do you think it would take for literally millions and millions of people to expire from dehydration? How about starvation?<br/><br/>Sharon, have you ever even thought to asked yourself these type of questions? Ask youself this question, "how do you propose, 300 million people would survive in this country, without power?"<br/><br/>Electricity, is not only the best means to deliever the power it takes to run our economy, it's our "lifeline".<br/><br/>Thanks, yooper Sharon, I just have to ask you, how would millions and millions work without power? What would they do without money? How would banks survive? Wall Street? How long do you think the local supermarket would be open? How long do you think the “meals on wheels program” would last here in America? How long do you think it would take for literally millions and millions of people to expire from dehydration? How about starvation?

Sharon, have you ever even thought to asked yourself these type of questions? Ask youself this question, “how do you propose, 300 million people would survive in this country, without power?”

Electricity, is not only the best means to deliever the power it takes to run our economy, it’s our “lifeline”.

Thanks, yooper

]]> By: yooper http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-619 yooper Sat, 07 Jul 2007 00:12:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-619 I'm sorry to differ with you Sharon, but I think you're taking life without power not seriously enough. If the lights went out across the country, I'm strongly suggesting, that this will actually signal the beginning of the die-off, in this country. How else could it be? Clearly, you have not thought this out.<br/><br/>A big problem for me and many others here in the North Country during winter months, we're assuming that there is a continous, uninteruptive supply of electrical power. Without it, my water line leading to the house is frozen in a manner of hours. Worse yet, I heat with propane, without the electrical blower, this unit is useless. How do you propose that millions of people should deal with this?<br/><br/>I'm here to inform you that not only is our infrastructure reliant on continous power, but all across our nation. Everything, everywhere. How do you propose the people of Tuscon, Az. or Vegas, Nv. would get a drink of water without power for a week? Could they even walk to water in time?<br/><br/>If this country had a very hard time delievering water to those in New Orleans, what makes you think. it'll be just an inconvience? Do you think that these back-up powerplants,(disel) were designed to carry the load, generated by the elctrical plant? For how long? How do you propose these plants would get fuel after the storage tanks are near empty? Do you think the goverment can somehow organize an effort to accomplish this feat to literally thousands and thousands of such powerplants?<br/><br/>At what point, would people begin to riot, or for total chaos to break out after such an event as the power going out?<br/><br/>Is it even possible, that the entire electrical grids could go down in this country? What would that even matter, if say the whole northeastern section of North America went down? Could enough help be delieverd in TIME? What would it take to get power back on line?<br/><br/>No, I'm sorry, but you're definitely not seeing the same picture, as I am. I’m sorry to differ with you Sharon, but I think you’re taking life without power not seriously enough. If the lights went out across the country, I’m strongly suggesting, that this will actually signal the beginning of the die-off, in this country. How else could it be? Clearly, you have not thought this out.

A big problem for me and many others here in the North Country during winter months, we’re assuming that there is a continous, uninteruptive supply of electrical power. Without it, my water line leading to the house is frozen in a manner of hours. Worse yet, I heat with propane, without the electrical blower, this unit is useless. How do you propose that millions of people should deal with this?

I’m here to inform you that not only is our infrastructure reliant on continous power, but all across our nation. Everything, everywhere. How do you propose the people of Tuscon, Az. or Vegas, Nv. would get a drink of water without power for a week? Could they even walk to water in time?

If this country had a very hard time delievering water to those in New Orleans, what makes you think. it’ll be just an inconvience? Do you think that these back-up powerplants,(disel) were designed to carry the load, generated by the elctrical plant? For how long? How do you propose these plants would get fuel after the storage tanks are near empty? Do you think the goverment can somehow organize an effort to accomplish this feat to literally thousands and thousands of such powerplants?

At what point, would people begin to riot, or for total chaos to break out after such an event as the power going out?

Is it even possible, that the entire electrical grids could go down in this country? What would that even matter, if say the whole northeastern section of North America went down? Could enough help be delieverd in TIME? What would it take to get power back on line?

No, I’m sorry, but you’re definitely not seeing the same picture, as I am.

]]> By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-618 Anonymous Fri, 06 Jul 2007 21:32:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-618 Solar must not be expensive if you do it smart. I have friends in spain who live on a mountain off the grid. They have 1(!) solar panel on the roof, a few old car batteries and 12V wiring in the house. Light is either fluorescent or halogen floodlights right where you need it. It also powers a small TV, and the music. Water comes running down in a pipe from higher up the mountain, so they got gravity powered running water, the fridge runs on propane and for power tools or running the washing machine they fire up a generator. And its a beautiful life they live there! I'd change with them any day :-) <br/>Also i spent last winter living in a hut with no electricity and water from a well. I used candles for light and a woodstove for heating. Not having all these distracting electric gadgets can also be quite a liberation! After a while i installed a cable to a generator on a lot nearby, but i never used it for anything but recharging my laptop - i simply wasnt feeling like I lack anything. <br/>Keeping food required some changes: some things were stored inside, others were kept frozen outside, eggs had to be eaten rightaway :) <br/>Lack of electricity is really mostly a frightening problem in cities - just about anything there needs elictricity (or gas...). <br/>matthias Solar must not be expensive if you do it smart. I have friends in spain who live on a mountain off the grid. They have 1(!) solar panel on the roof, a few old car batteries and 12V wiring in the house. Light is either fluorescent or halogen floodlights right where you need it. It also powers a small TV, and the music. Water comes running down in a pipe from higher up the mountain, so they got gravity powered running water, the fridge runs on propane and for power tools or running the washing machine they fire up a generator. And its a beautiful life they live there! I’d change with them any day :-)
Also i spent last winter living in a hut with no electricity and water from a well. I used candles for light and a woodstove for heating. Not having all these distracting electric gadgets can also be quite a liberation! After a while i installed a cable to a generator on a lot nearby, but i never used it for anything but recharging my laptop - i simply wasnt feeling like I lack anything.
Keeping food required some changes: some things were stored inside, others were kept frozen outside, eggs had to be eaten rightaway :)
Lack of electricity is really mostly a frightening problem in cities - just about anything there needs elictricity (or gas…).
matthias

]]> By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-617 Anonymous Tue, 20 Feb 2007 23:33:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-617 One thing that people tend not to think of when considering future paring down - during times of expense and scarcity it will also become necessary to rethink our hyper-clean high-volume laundry-doing habits...our current habits of tossing things in the laundry after one use or one wearing will likely change quite a bit...imagine trying to do the same amount of laundry by hand, or with very simplistic machinery, along with how much water would be involved - and it becomes obvious that a change will have to occur.<br/><br/> We may spot clean a great deal instead of washing the whole item, for instance - and wear something substantially more often before a complete wash of it is done. We will probably use a bath towel for more than one person; rather than tossing it to be cleaned after one bath, several persons will use it.<br/>We amy air dry ourselves, foregoing towels entirely.<br/> <br/>We will spot clean our bodies, as well...perhaps returning to the bath once a week mode. (sounds unpleasant, but one would get used to it) <br/><br/> We will likely greatly reduce the number of items that we regularly wear, saving some for future needs while using other items for non-clothing purposes. In that future, if something isn't 'worth' the water and effort it takes to wash it, we won't be wearing it. The cheaply made common clothing of today won't last, so investing now in a basic wardrobe of natural fiber items that will last for a long time, and aren't complicated to clean would be a good idea. Ditto some good quality bedding and towels, and high-quality basic footwear.<br/><br/>Cynthia One thing that people tend not to think of when considering future paring down - during times of expense and scarcity it will also become necessary to rethink our hyper-clean high-volume laundry-doing habits…our current habits of tossing things in the laundry after one use or one wearing will likely change quite a bit…imagine trying to do the same amount of laundry by hand, or with very simplistic machinery, along with how much water would be involved - and it becomes obvious that a change will have to occur.

We may spot clean a great deal instead of washing the whole item, for instance - and wear something substantially more often before a complete wash of it is done. We will probably use a bath towel for more than one person; rather than tossing it to be cleaned after one bath, several persons will use it.
We amy air dry ourselves, foregoing towels entirely.

We will spot clean our bodies, as well…perhaps returning to the bath once a week mode. (sounds unpleasant, but one would get used to it)

We will likely greatly reduce the number of items that we regularly wear, saving some for future needs while using other items for non-clothing purposes. In that future, if something isn’t ‘worth’ the water and effort it takes to wash it, we won’t be wearing it. The cheaply made common clothing of today won’t last, so investing now in a basic wardrobe of natural fiber items that will last for a long time, and aren’t complicated to clean would be a good idea. Ditto some good quality bedding and towels, and high-quality basic footwear.

Cynthia

]]> By: Steve http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-616 Steve Tue, 20 Feb 2007 15:00:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-616 "We should not confuse issues of comfort with issues of necessity."<br/><br/>That's the story of our culture, isn't it.<br/><br/>I remember well the original oil embargo in the early 70's. The thermostat setting in our household went way down. If anyone complained, my mother would simply say, "put on another sweater". <br/><br/>I now live quite rustically in rural NH. We are the last house on the electric line up here. I have a horse to work the woodlot (we heat with wood, oil backup), grow a lot of our own vegetables, etc.<br/><br/>We have a fair sense of what living without electricity means, since our power fails often out here (why, just yesterday, for example). If power becomes intermittent, we could roll with that. If it simply stopped...<br/><br/>The thing that would be a real yank for us would be water, though we have a probably-drinkable stream quite nearby. I should probably put a manual pump on the well...<br/><br/>But come "gridcrash", winters would be trying here. Must get that wood-fired cooking range that I've been meaning to for years now... “We should not confuse issues of comfort with issues of necessity.”

That’s the story of our culture, isn’t it.

I remember well the original oil embargo in the early 70’s. The thermostat setting in our household went way down. If anyone complained, my mother would simply say, “put on another sweater”.

I now live quite rustically in rural NH. We are the last house on the electric line up here. I have a horse to work the woodlot (we heat with wood, oil backup), grow a lot of our own vegetables, etc.

We have a fair sense of what living without electricity means, since our power fails often out here (why, just yesterday, for example). If power becomes intermittent, we could roll with that. If it simply stopped…

The thing that would be a real yank for us would be water, though we have a probably-drinkable stream quite nearby. I should probably put a manual pump on the well…

But come “gridcrash”, winters would be trying here. Must get that wood-fired cooking range that I’ve been meaning to for years now…

]]> By: Alantex http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-615 Alantex Tue, 20 Feb 2007 07:22:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-615 Well, Stephen,<br/>That answers my question. It seems by the logic of this law, that any plant life you might have on your property that absorbs rainfall and prevents it from running off into a river would also violate Colorado water law.<br/><br/>It seems pretty clear that the law is intended to prevent landowners from creating impoundments on their property which would hold large amounts (dozens or hundreds of acre-feet) of rainfall runoff and then using that water for irrigation or for watering livestock. But, just as clearly, a homeowner with a rainbarrel is also in violation. Not exactly easy to police, though.<br/><br/>I wonder how it is determined exactly how much water is "supposed" to run off a given plot of land? If I buy a barren lot where the rain has been falling and running off without hindrance for millennia, and build a home with landscaping (lawns, shrubs, trees, perhaps a garden), then a lot of the water which formerly ran off will be absorbed by my landscaping. Maybe runoff will be reduced by 50%. Am I then in violation of Colorado water law? How about the other two or three million Colorado homeowners with lawns and shrubbery?<br/><br/>Are there books full of case law on this subject in Colorado? Does a subdivision developer have to purchase water rights for the water which will not make it into a river because of the 50 or 60 new landscaped homes he will build? <br/><br/>Can a homeowner purchase the right to collect and use the rain which falls on his property? Like a farmer who buys the right to withdraw x number of acre-feet from a river for irrigation?<br/><br/>All very curious and, I'm sure, extremely strange to people from parts of the country where water is not so scarce. Well, Stephen,
That answers my question. It seems by the logic of this law, that any plant life you might have on your property that absorbs rainfall and prevents it from running off into a river would also violate Colorado water law.

It seems pretty clear that the law is intended to prevent landowners from creating impoundments on their property which would hold large amounts (dozens or hundreds of acre-feet) of rainfall runoff and then using that water for irrigation or for watering livestock. But, just as clearly, a homeowner with a rainbarrel is also in violation. Not exactly easy to police, though.

I wonder how it is determined exactly how much water is “supposed” to run off a given plot of land? If I buy a barren lot where the rain has been falling and running off without hindrance for millennia, and build a home with landscaping (lawns, shrubs, trees, perhaps a garden), then a lot of the water which formerly ran off will be absorbed by my landscaping. Maybe runoff will be reduced by 50%. Am I then in violation of Colorado water law? How about the other two or three million Colorado homeowners with lawns and shrubbery?

Are there books full of case law on this subject in Colorado? Does a subdivision developer have to purchase water rights for the water which will not make it into a river because of the 50 or 60 new landscaped homes he will build?

Can a homeowner purchase the right to collect and use the rain which falls on his property? Like a farmer who buys the right to withdraw x number of acre-feet from a river for irrigation?

All very curious and, I’m sure, extremely strange to people from parts of the country where water is not so scarce.

]]> By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-614 Anonymous Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:55:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-614 Sorry, that URL I just posted was too long. Here is a Tiny URL for it: <br/><br/>http://tinyurl.com/24qn6b<br/><br/>Stephen Beltramini Sorry, that URL I just posted was too long. Here is a Tiny URL for it:

http://tinyurl.com/24qn6b

Stephen Beltramini

]]> By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-613 Anonymous Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:53:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-613 Here's one: It's illegal in Colorado where Colorado Water Law requires that precipitation fall to the ground, run off and into the river of the watershed where it fell. Because rights to water are legally allocated in this state, an individual may not capture and use water to which he/she does not have a right.<br/><br/>See: http://www.denverwater.org/cons_xeriscape/conservation/FAQ_WestWaterLaws.html<br/><br/><br/>Stephen Beltramini<br/>Walpole, MA Here’s one: It’s illegal in Colorado where Colorado Water Law requires that precipitation fall to the ground, run off and into the river of the watershed where it fell. Because rights to water are legally allocated in this state, an individual may not capture and use water to which he/she does not have a right.

See: http://www.denverwater.org/cons_xeriscape/conservation/FAQ_WestWaterLaws.html

Stephen Beltramini
Walpole, MA

]]> By: moll from oz http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-612 moll from oz Tue, 20 Feb 2007 04:47:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/02/19/it-isnt-gridcrash-that-makes-the-lights-go-out/#comment-612 http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html<br/>A great energy saving fridge idea from downunder http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html
A great energy saving fridge idea from downunder

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