Comments on: Putting Another Log on the Fire http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Wed, 19 Nov 2008 23:08:56 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1644 Anonymous Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:14:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1644 And in the NY Times "garden advice" column yesterday, an apartment dweller with a balcony was looking for some sort of product they could buy to keep their balcony plants watered while they went away and the columnist was full of advice about what they could buy- and never once was it suggested that perhaps the neighbors could just stop by and water the plants...... And in the NY Times “garden advice” column yesterday, an apartment dweller with a balcony was looking for some sort of product they could buy to keep their balcony plants watered while they went away and the columnist was full of advice about what they could buy- and never once was it suggested that perhaps the neighbors could just stop by and water the plants……

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1643 Anonymous Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:14:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1643 I passed this article on to my husband. It was a great way to present my views on our future needs. Rambos get around. We both have known several. Sad, really, for someone to be so helpless and immature, but damn funny. Excellent article. I have enjoyed many of your articles. It's nice to know someone in the peak-oil arena who's sane. I passed this article on to my husband. It was a great way to present my views on our future needs. Rambos get around. We both have known several. Sad, really, for someone to be so helpless and immature, but damn funny. Excellent article. I have enjoyed many of your articles. It’s nice to know someone in the peak-oil arena who’s sane.

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By: jewishfarmer http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1642 jewishfarmer Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:12:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1642 Katrien, thanks for the book recommendation - I'll definitely look at it.<br/><br/>I agree with you that having people like you is really valuable. For us, one of the big issues is family proximity, another is access to religious community. I'm really not opposed to an ecovillage - I just can't imagine spending the rest of my life deciding things by consensus, but that's probably me. I like the principles, I just don't know that I could live with them.<br/><br/>I sometimes debate inviting another (comparatively) young family to come share our home and farm - we have a huge house and more land than we can work by hand. I worry that it might not work out, but at the same time, I often look at what I have and think that it would be so much easier with more people - and so much more fun. <br/><br/>So yes, I do understand the appeal. I just sometimes think that the "community of like-minded folk" thing becomes a barrier to simply choosing a place. I know a lot of people who are looking for the perfect community, and I wonder if they'll ever really find it.<br/><br/>Sharon Katrien, thanks for the book recommendation - I’ll definitely look at it.

I agree with you that having people like you is really valuable. For us, one of the big issues is family proximity, another is access to religious community. I’m really not opposed to an ecovillage - I just can’t imagine spending the rest of my life deciding things by consensus, but that’s probably me. I like the principles, I just don’t know that I could live with them.

I sometimes debate inviting another (comparatively) young family to come share our home and farm - we have a huge house and more land than we can work by hand. I worry that it might not work out, but at the same time, I often look at what I have and think that it would be so much easier with more people - and so much more fun.

So yes, I do understand the appeal. I just sometimes think that the “community of like-minded folk” thing becomes a barrier to simply choosing a place. I know a lot of people who are looking for the perfect community, and I wonder if they’ll ever really find it.

Sharon

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By: jewishfarmer http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1641 jewishfarmer Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:08:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1641 Anonymous, you may be right. Rambo did give me permission to "pass this on" which I considered permission to discuss publically. And frankly, Rambo's comments were in some places so offensive that I don't feel that guilty about it. I left out the part where he discussed precisely what he'd like to do to/with me, in which the phrase "lick your pussy" did figure prominently. I have tended to think that if you are really obnoxious in email you forfeit the right for me not to make public fun of you. <br/><br/>But maybe I should have a little more compassion, and maybe this wasn't fair. I don't know - I think sometimes I err on the wrong side, and I appreciate your critique. BTW, now that we know each other, can you sign in with initials or a code name or something - I don't want to invade your privacy, but I hate thinking about you as "the poor disabled person." Otherwise, I fear I'll start thinking about you (and I hope you will take this as flattery, not unkindness) as "Jiminy Cricket" because I think you have such an unfailing ear for when my conscience should bother me more ;-). I appreciate it.<br/><br/>Sharon Anonymous, you may be right. Rambo did give me permission to “pass this on” which I considered permission to discuss publically. And frankly, Rambo’s comments were in some places so offensive that I don’t feel that guilty about it. I left out the part where he discussed precisely what he’d like to do to/with me, in which the phrase “lick your pussy” did figure prominently. I have tended to think that if you are really obnoxious in email you forfeit the right for me not to make public fun of you.

But maybe I should have a little more compassion, and maybe this wasn’t fair. I don’t know - I think sometimes I err on the wrong side, and I appreciate your critique. BTW, now that we know each other, can you sign in with initials or a code name or something - I don’t want to invade your privacy, but I hate thinking about you as “the poor disabled person.” Otherwise, I fear I’ll start thinking about you (and I hope you will take this as flattery, not unkindness) as “Jiminy Cricket” because I think you have such an unfailing ear for when my conscience should bother me more ;-). I appreciate it.

Sharon

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1640 Anonymous Thu, 28 Jun 2007 20:28:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1640 Hi, it's me, the poor/disabled person - ;)<br/><br/>This post is quite funny, and you make a great related point about building neighborliness - but, I don't think it was very nice of you to out this Rambo so fully - he sent his hopeful email to you, not to all of your readers - and he should have been given the humane courtesy of a less humiliating mention, if any at all. I understand that he was offensive, and far too presumptuous - but was such explicit fun-making on a widely-read blog really the right and honorable thing to do? <br/><br/>Although I laughed, I felt rather ashamed for doing so. Hi, it’s me, the poor/disabled person - ;)

This post is quite funny, and you make a great related point about building neighborliness - but, I don’t think it was very nice of you to out this Rambo so fully - he sent his hopeful email to you, not to all of your readers - and he should have been given the humane courtesy of a less humiliating mention, if any at all. I understand that he was offensive, and far too presumptuous - but was such explicit fun-making on a widely-read blog really the right and honorable thing to do?

Although I laughed, I felt rather ashamed for doing so.

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1639 Anonymous Thu, 28 Jun 2007 18:32:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1639 That totally explains some of the rhetoric I have seen on the peak oil survivalist boards....now I know where they are coming from. Literally.<br/><br/>Someone once pointed out to me that the reason these guys want to see the world turn out that way is because they have failed in the current world, and they imagine that because they will have weapons and know how to use them that they are gonna be on top of the stone age system. That totally explains some of the rhetoric I have seen on the peak oil survivalist boards….now I know where they are coming from. Literally.

Someone once pointed out to me that the reason these guys want to see the world turn out that way is because they have failed in the current world, and they imagine that because they will have weapons and know how to use them that they are gonna be on top of the stone age system.

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1638 Anonymous Thu, 28 Jun 2007 17:59:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1638 I'm fortunate to have family (my APs) and like minded neighbors in walking distance. But I'm also careful to keep neighborly with the unlike minded ones, and they, obviously, with me. <br/>MEA I’m fortunate to have family (my APs) and like minded neighbors in walking distance. But I’m also careful to keep neighborly with the unlike minded ones, and they, obviously, with me.
MEA

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By: Katrien http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1637 Katrien Thu, 28 Jun 2007 16:07:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1637 Hilarious! And serious too, yes, but very funny!<br/><br/>Sharon, you write "I'm not talking about setting up an ecovillage - I'm talking about building community with the people who live near you." In the comments this is called "neighborliness," in which likemindedness should not be an issue.<br/><br/>I agree we need neighborliness. But I also like the idea of a like-minded community of family and friends. I don't know if you have lots of family nearby, but my own nuclear family is rather extremely nuclear. It's just the 3 of us, and our nearest relatives, 1,000 miles away, have never seen our daughter(almost 2 years old). As I get more insight into what the future will hold, I feel the need to attract more family and friends - not for visiting, but for <i>staying</i> with us. <br/><br/>Also, by the way, in response to a much earlier post of yours on learning about the energy crisis from the poor, I wanted to mention Chelsea Green's new book <i>Since Sliced Bread. Common-sense ideas from America's working families</i>. Very helpful in so many ways! Hilarious! And serious too, yes, but very funny!

Sharon, you write “I’m not talking about setting up an ecovillage - I’m talking about building community with the people who live near you.” In the comments this is called “neighborliness,” in which likemindedness should not be an issue.

I agree we need neighborliness. But I also like the idea of a like-minded community of family and friends. I don’t know if you have lots of family nearby, but my own nuclear family is rather extremely nuclear. It’s just the 3 of us, and our nearest relatives, 1,000 miles away, have never seen our daughter(almost 2 years old). As I get more insight into what the future will hold, I feel the need to attract more family and friends - not for visiting, but for staying with us.

Also, by the way, in response to a much earlier post of yours on learning about the energy crisis from the poor, I wanted to mention Chelsea Green’s new book Since Sliced Bread. Common-sense ideas from America’s working families. Very helpful in so many ways!

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1636 Anonymous Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:25:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1636 Neighborliness seems a lot like soil to me. I've lived in places where there was no sense of neighborliness whatsoever, and places that prided themselves on being neighborly. Sociologists call it social capital and it is real. Also it's very subject to erosion. When we lived in "Deer Park" most residents lived there 1 or 2 years before moving on. The few who had been there over a decade interacted with each other a lot, but they weren't going to make the investment on someone who would move away soon. Where we are now, one lady made friendly gestures to us when we moved in, but none of our (many) other neighbors made overtures, but when word got out that we bought the house rather than renting it, and were hoping to stay her long-term, lots of people started befriending us. And we were let in on some of the neighborhood traditions, like playing washers. For the first time in our life, we've lived in one place long enough for friends to move away from us instead of vice versa. So I understand the emotional investment issue a little better. I think there are many, many places where community has been eroded to almost nothingness by moving in and away. This will probably change as Peak Oil effects get bad, but I'm not sure it will change right at first. In a lot of places community building will be starting from almost scratch. <br/>-Brian M. Neighborliness seems a lot like soil to me. I’ve lived in places where there was no sense of neighborliness whatsoever, and places that prided themselves on being neighborly. Sociologists call it social capital and it is real. Also it’s very subject to erosion. When we lived in “Deer Park” most residents lived there 1 or 2 years before moving on. The few who had been there over a decade interacted with each other a lot, but they weren’t going to make the investment on someone who would move away soon. Where we are now, one lady made friendly gestures to us when we moved in, but none of our (many) other neighbors made overtures, but when word got out that we bought the house rather than renting it, and were hoping to stay her long-term, lots of people started befriending us. And we were let in on some of the neighborhood traditions, like playing washers. For the first time in our life, we’ve lived in one place long enough for friends to move away from us instead of vice versa. So I understand the emotional investment issue a little better. I think there are many, many places where community has been eroded to almost nothingness by moving in and away. This will probably change as Peak Oil effects get bad, but I’m not sure it will change right at first. In a lot of places community building will be starting from almost scratch.
-Brian M.

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By: Greenpa http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1635 Greenpa Thu, 28 Jun 2007 14:13:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/06/27/putting-another-log-on-the-fire/#comment-1635 Wonderful stuff!! I was cracking up through the whole essay. :-) Wonderful stuff!! I was cracking up through the whole essay. :-)

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