Comments on: Acts of Non-Consumption and the Riot for Austerity at Community Solutions http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:15:21 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: dan http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3189 dan Thu, 27 Dec 2007 03:14:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3189 Sharon,<br/>I am surprised no one has mentioned the concept of "polar cities", also called "ark cities", also called "arktopia," also called sustainable polar retreats, http://pcillu101.blogspot.com, that humankind just might need in the year 2500 or so, if all the fixes and ideas we have now don't work. What do you think? Do you think it could come to that, and should we start thinking about polar cities now, planning them, designing them, locating sites for them, now, while we have time and transporation to get there, or do you think the fixes will work? Love to hear your opinion on polar cities, pro or con, yes or no. This is all just a non threatening thought experiment, i like to tell people. Your work with Riot for Austerity is a very good idea and I applaud it. We need to stop all car and plane traffic now. NOW. Sharon,
I am surprised no one has mentioned the concept of “polar cities”, also called “ark cities”, also called “arktopia,” also called sustainable polar retreats, http://pcillu101.blogspot.com, that humankind just might need in the year 2500 or so, if all the fixes and ideas we have now don’t work. What do you think? Do you think it could come to that, and should we start thinking about polar cities now, planning them, designing them, locating sites for them, now, while we have time and transporation to get there, or do you think the fixes will work? Love to hear your opinion on polar cities, pro or con, yes or no. This is all just a non threatening thought experiment, i like to tell people. Your work with Riot for Austerity is a very good idea and I applaud it. We need to stop all car and plane traffic now. NOW.

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By: Barwebow http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3188 Barwebow Mon, 05 Nov 2007 03:38:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3188 I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned the pending economic collapse. This will automatically cause a reduction in our consumption. It will be a huge motivator for the currently uninspired. I’m surprised that no one has yet mentioned the pending economic collapse. This will automatically cause a reduction in our consumption. It will be a huge motivator for the currently uninspired.

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3187 Anonymous Sun, 04 Nov 2007 17:01:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3187 Corrected link to the great article submitted by sgl:<br/><br/>http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/04/040507_conservation.html Corrected link to the great article submitted by sgl:

http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/04/040507_conservation.html

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By: jewishfarmer http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3186 jewishfarmer Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:58:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3186 Cherenkov, the birthrate is still falling worldwide - even the highest TFR rates in the world have seen 20% drops and more in under a decade, which is astonishing. But the reality is that falling birthrates take time to show up - while dramatically reduced consumption rates can happen quite quickly.<br/><br/>The reality is that impact is a multiple of consumption and population - both need to be addressed, but the first most important project is to get consumption down in the rich world.<br/><br/>As for whether people will ever voluntarily reduce their consumption or change their society in any deep way - well, the only models we have are historical, and in fact, revolutionary change has happened before. Whether it will in this case, I can only speculate upon.<br/><br/>Sharon Cherenkov, the birthrate is still falling worldwide - even the highest TFR rates in the world have seen 20% drops and more in under a decade, which is astonishing. But the reality is that falling birthrates take time to show up - while dramatically reduced consumption rates can happen quite quickly.

The reality is that impact is a multiple of consumption and population - both need to be addressed, but the first most important project is to get consumption down in the rich world.

As for whether people will ever voluntarily reduce their consumption or change their society in any deep way - well, the only models we have are historical, and in fact, revolutionary change has happened before. Whether it will in this case, I can only speculate upon.

Sharon

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By: jewishfarmer http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3185 jewishfarmer Sun, 04 Nov 2007 14:54:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3185 Anna, I admire your enthusiasm and hope for Gore. As I said in a prior thread, I don't share it - I think relying upon people complict in mass murder to transform society is generally a bad idea. But, I also reluctantly approve of the draft Gore idea - I doubt it will work, but sure, go for it.<br/><br/>On the other hand, I think relying on Thomas Friedman, the advocate and to an extent architect of the absolute cultural presumption of globalization to direct us to real change is beyond unwise - Friedman has made it absolutely clear in _The World is Flat_ and in his columns that what he seeks is the status quo made more so. The idea that one of his columns would guide us in the direction of real change is ridiculous.<br/><br/>Sharon Anna, I admire your enthusiasm and hope for Gore. As I said in a prior thread, I don’t share it - I think relying upon people complict in mass murder to transform society is generally a bad idea. But, I also reluctantly approve of the draft Gore idea - I doubt it will work, but sure, go for it.

On the other hand, I think relying on Thomas Friedman, the advocate and to an extent architect of the absolute cultural presumption of globalization to direct us to real change is beyond unwise - Friedman has made it absolutely clear in _The World is Flat_ and in his columns that what he seeks is the status quo made more so. The idea that one of his columns would guide us in the direction of real change is ridiculous.

Sharon

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3184 Anonymous Sun, 04 Nov 2007 03:40:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3184 <a>http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/04/040507_conservation.html</a><br/><br/>Waste not, want not: making conservation #1, #2 priority<br/>By Lauren Heaton<br/><br/>Yellow Springs community members Larry Halpern and Gail Keen have spent the past several years reducing their household reliance on energy and are now using one-fourth of the energy they used in the past.<br/><br/><br/>for DVDs of the presentations, including Larry Halpern's and Sharon's:<br/><a></a><br/><br/>--sgl http://www.ysnews.com/stories/2007/04/040507_conservation.html

Waste not, want not: making conservation #1, #2 priority
By Lauren Heaton

Yellow Springs community members Larry Halpern and Gail Keen have spent the past several years reducing their household reliance on energy and are now using one-fourth of the energy they used in the past.

for DVDs of the presentations, including Larry Halpern’s and Sharon’s:

–sgl

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3183 Anonymous Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:48:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3183 Here are George Monbiot's reflections on the Clinton/Gore Administration as stated in the foreword to the U.S. edition of his 2007 book "Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning":<br/><br/>"But the inconvenient truth we seek to forget is that the Clinton-Gore administration did even greater damage [than the Bush administration]. Bush might have pulled the U.S. out of the Kyoto Protocol, but the Clinton administration destroyed the Protocol as an effective instrument -- for everyone. It insisted on measures which allow countries to trade hot air and launder fake cuts. It encouraged other countries to reduce their targets (and thereby allow a higher level of emissions). In his speech to the Kyoto conference in December 1997, Al Gore used the same mendacious formula George Bush now employs, claiming that limiting carbon emissions the U.S. might otherwise have produced in a hypothetical future equates to real cuts in actual emissions. It was one of the most disgraceful moments in the Clinton presidency, and is impossible to reconcile with the subsequent career of the former next president of the United States. Clinton failed to submit the protocol to the Senate, Bush refused to do so. There is little practical difference.<br/><br/>In other words the china had already been smashed when Bush took office: he simply ground it into dust. I admire Al Gore's film and Bill Clinton's Climate Initiative, but they also stick in the throat. Like many former leaders, they do a much better job of governing when out of office."<br/><br/>~Vegan/Leaving So.FL Here are George Monbiot’s reflections on the Clinton/Gore Administration as stated in the foreword to the U.S. edition of his 2007 book “Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning”:

“But the inconvenient truth we seek to forget is that the Clinton-Gore administration did even greater damage [than the Bush administration]. Bush might have pulled the U.S. out of the Kyoto Protocol, but the Clinton administration destroyed the Protocol as an effective instrument — for everyone. It insisted on measures which allow countries to trade hot air and launder fake cuts. It encouraged other countries to reduce their targets (and thereby allow a higher level of emissions). In his speech to the Kyoto conference in December 1997, Al Gore used the same mendacious formula George Bush now employs, claiming that limiting carbon emissions the U.S. might otherwise have produced in a hypothetical future equates to real cuts in actual emissions. It was one of the most disgraceful moments in the Clinton presidency, and is impossible to reconcile with the subsequent career of the former next president of the United States. Clinton failed to submit the protocol to the Senate, Bush refused to do so. There is little practical difference.

In other words the china had already been smashed when Bush took office: he simply ground it into dust. I admire Al Gore’s film and Bill Clinton’s Climate Initiative, but they also stick in the throat. Like many former leaders, they do a much better job of governing when out of office.”

~Vegan/Leaving So.FL

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By: Anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3182 Anonymous Sun, 04 Nov 2007 00:27:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3182 Brian, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post.<br/><br/>True that "change is coming from all levels and soon, whether we like it or not." However, our culture would be spared much unnecessary suffering if people in our society would voluntarily realize that downsizing or simplifying our lifestyles is necessary to avert the extinction of our species and that it is the ethical and noble thing to do. With that realization, then, it would be easier to address the actions needed for the transition. As opposed to, say, people thinking that the magic elixir of technology or a particular leader would remedy our problems and ignore the fact that radical lifestyle changes are needed. This is what I meant when I said that change to be effective and least chaotic must come from the inside out.<br/><br/>I'm rather skeptical about the possibility of the majority of Americans pursuing simplifying their lifestyles. I don't think that it would be voluntarily pursued en masse.<br/><br/>~Vegan/Leaving So.FL Brian, I enjoyed reading your thoughtful post.

True that “change is coming from all levels and soon, whether we like it or not.” However, our culture would be spared much unnecessary suffering if people in our society would voluntarily realize that downsizing or simplifying our lifestyles is necessary to avert the extinction of our species and that it is the ethical and noble thing to do. With that realization, then, it would be easier to address the actions needed for the transition. As opposed to, say, people thinking that the magic elixir of technology or a particular leader would remedy our problems and ignore the fact that radical lifestyle changes are needed. This is what I meant when I said that change to be effective and least chaotic must come from the inside out.

I’m rather skeptical about the possibility of the majority of Americans pursuing simplifying their lifestyles. I don’t think that it would be voluntarily pursued en masse.

~Vegan/Leaving So.FL

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By: Amelia http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3181 Amelia Sat, 03 Nov 2007 20:01:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3181 Anna, those of us who were going to read the Friedman have read it; that we have reached a different conclusion to your own does not mean that we didn't understand what we were reading, or appreciate the urgency of the situation: you have not added anything to your original point beside volume and frequency of posting, and I would respectfully suggest that you let it go.<br/><br/>Sharon, if you were to do a more in-depth write-up of reaction to the Riot, I would enjoy reading it. Anna, those of us who were going to read the Friedman have read it; that we have reached a different conclusion to your own does not mean that we didn’t understand what we were reading, or appreciate the urgency of the situation: you have not added anything to your original point beside volume and frequency of posting, and I would respectfully suggest that you let it go.

Sharon, if you were to do a more in-depth write-up of reaction to the Riot, I would enjoy reading it.

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By: Anna http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3180 Anna Sat, 03 Nov 2007 19:01:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2007/11/01/acts-of-non-consumption-and-the-riot-for-austerity-at-community-solutions/#comment-3180 <a HREF="http://www.marklynas.org/2007/3/15/to-the-end-of-the-earth-six-degrees-in-the-sunday-times" REL="nofollow">Six degrees - Our Future on a Hotter Planet</a> Six degrees - Our Future on a Hotter Planet

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