<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!-- generator="wordpress/2.3.2" -->
<rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: How Expensive is Food, Really?</title>
	<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/</link>
	<description>Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Lisa B-K</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3354</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa B-K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3354</guid>
		<description>New reader here!

I found this post interesting in light of a NYT editorial I read literally just before I hopped over to yr site:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html?ref=opinion

I run the farmers market locally. It steams me that these terrific vendors, many of whom would LOVE to get into grocery stores or expand to meet increasing wholesaler demand, can't do it, and thus "real food" is less available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New reader here!</p>
<p>I found this post interesting in light of a NYT editorial I read literally just before I hopped over to yr site:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html?ref=opinion" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/01/opinion/01hedin.html?ref=opinion</a></p>
<p>I run the farmers market locally. It steams me that these terrific vendors, many of whom would LOVE to get into grocery stores or expand to meet increasing wholesaler demand, can&#8217;t do it, and thus &#8220;real food&#8221; is less available.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3343</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 00:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3343</guid>
		<description>Excellent post as always, but my favorite thing was your reference to Howarth's _1066_! I love that book!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent post as always, but my favorite thing was your reference to Howarth&#8217;s _1066_! I love that book!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rosa</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3334</link>
		<dc:creator>Rosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:39:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3334</guid>
		<description>That's pretty much the purpose of cash taxes, in a colonial society - a head tax, a land tax, a poll tax - to force people into the cash economy.

(though I don't get how a condo fee is a tax)

Thank you for the post, Sharon. I do think in the long run higher food prices are good for farmers, once they are stabilized - if you take away the anti-small-farmer political situation, both in the developed world and in most of Africa and South America. But I don't know how we fix our political situation, much less fix it permanently and have supportive programs for the transition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s pretty much the purpose of cash taxes, in a colonial society - a head tax, a land tax, a poll tax - to force people into the cash economy.</p>
<p>(though I don&#8217;t get how a condo fee is a tax)</p>
<p>Thank you for the post, Sharon. I do think in the long run higher food prices are good for farmers, once they are stabilized - if you take away the anti-small-farmer political situation, both in the developed world and in most of Africa and South America. But I don&#8217;t know how we fix our political situation, much less fix it permanently and have supportive programs for the transition.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3328</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3328</guid>
		<description>Stephen-

yes- property taxes are a major issue here-and yes- it forces people into the ecconomic system as they have to earn dollars to pay property taxes- even if they own their place outright. 

In my state, we have so-called "income sensitivity" for property taxes- but that is based only on the house and 2 acres- and if you  live in a rural area-most people would have more land than that- you can't even build on a piece that small anymore due to zoning. So no matter how low my income- the land is taxed at the full rate...... Thus this year I paid over ten percent of my pre-tax income as my share of property taxes- the state kicked in some more-but this is pretty crazy. All we have in town are dirt roads, a tiny school and a one-room library...... and as fuel costs climb, so will our taxes, to pay for the road crew, school heating, etc......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen-</p>
<p>yes- property taxes are a major issue here-and yes- it forces people into the ecconomic system as they have to earn dollars to pay property taxes- even if they own their place outright. </p>
<p>In my state, we have so-called &#8220;income sensitivity&#8221; for property taxes- but that is based only on the house and 2 acres- and if you  live in a rural area-most people would have more land than that- you can&#8217;t even build on a piece that small anymore due to zoning. So no matter how low my income- the land is taxed at the full rate&#8230;&#8230; Thus this year I paid over ten percent of my pre-tax income as my share of property taxes- the state kicked in some more-but this is pretty crazy. All we have in town are dirt roads, a tiny school and a one-room library&#8230;&#8230; and as fuel costs climb, so will our taxes, to pay for the road crew, school heating, etc&#8230;&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stephen B.</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3326</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3326</guid>
		<description>One major reason that people have to work so hard at their forced participation in the cash economy is TAXES.  Our growth of government at all levels, from condo fees up to federal taxes forces, the avg. US person to work the first 4 or 5 months of the year just to pay taxes.  You and Ani both mention taxes briefly, but I think taxes are a much larger part of the problem than is mentioned.

Now I'm not going to launch an anti-tax, anti-govt speech here  (I'm fairly lefty-liberal and like to think that some govt. is actually good), but there's no denying that the govt. takes my hard-earned cash and spends it on things frankly I could do without, like lots of roads, Stealth bombers, armies of people doing all kinds of things.  Even at the local level, lots of tax revenue is spent on worker's comp, other insurance, fancy, paved roads, and so on.

Years ago, a person could often "work off" taxes by supplying a few weeks worth of stove wood for the local school or helping the road agent drag some of the local dirt roads to shape them up after mud season, but just try paying local taxes in anything other than $$ now!  Maybe, in some tiny locale it still happens, but not around the suburbs of Boston anymore, that's for sure.

Taxes are a huge part of why food has to be kept "cheap" for if we spent half of our income on food, how could we pay taxes, (part of which, in turn, are spent on agricultural subsidies to make food "cheap" to begin with?)

This is one major reason why I try to earn as much of my living as possible *OFF* and *OUT* of the cash economy.  The govt. cannot tax me as much when I don't earn $$ and then they cannot siphon off my productivity to spend on fancy roads, bombers, ethanol kickbacks, etc.

Property taxes, however, are the one major way even people who otherwise would not heavily participate in the govt.-created cash economy are nevertheless dragged into it.

'Love the new site too!

Stephen B.
suburban MA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One major reason that people have to work so hard at their forced participation in the cash economy is TAXES.  Our growth of government at all levels, from condo fees up to federal taxes forces, the avg. US person to work the first 4 or 5 months of the year just to pay taxes.  You and Ani both mention taxes briefly, but I think taxes are a much larger part of the problem than is mentioned.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not going to launch an anti-tax, anti-govt speech here  (I&#8217;m fairly lefty-liberal and like to think that some govt. is actually good), but there&#8217;s no denying that the govt. takes my hard-earned cash and spends it on things frankly I could do without, like lots of roads, Stealth bombers, armies of people doing all kinds of things.  Even at the local level, lots of tax revenue is spent on worker&#8217;s comp, other insurance, fancy, paved roads, and so on.</p>
<p>Years ago, a person could often &#8220;work off&#8221; taxes by supplying a few weeks worth of stove wood for the local school or helping the road agent drag some of the local dirt roads to shape them up after mud season, but just try paying local taxes in anything other than $$ now!  Maybe, in some tiny locale it still happens, but not around the suburbs of Boston anymore, that&#8217;s for sure.</p>
<p>Taxes are a huge part of why food has to be kept &#8220;cheap&#8221; for if we spent half of our income on food, how could we pay taxes, (part of which, in turn, are spent on agricultural subsidies to make food &#8220;cheap&#8221; to begin with?)</p>
<p>This is one major reason why I try to earn as much of my living as possible *OFF* and *OUT* of the cash economy.  The govt. cannot tax me as much when I don&#8217;t earn $$ and then they cannot siphon off my productivity to spend on fancy roads, bombers, ethanol kickbacks, etc.</p>
<p>Property taxes, however, are the one major way even people who otherwise would not heavily participate in the govt.-created cash economy are nevertheless dragged into it.</p>
<p>&#8216;Love the new site too!</p>
<p>Stephen B.<br />
suburban MA</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3324</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:57:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3324</guid>
		<description>Hi Donna and Ani - Trust me, I know what you mean about the budget busting stuff - both the weather (expecting 8-10 inches here tomorrow, just as warm temps have finally melted most of it off ;-), but also the food.  Six of us cost a lot - we can eat down our food storage, and mitigate costs to some degree, but I think things are going to get worse before they better, so I'm reluctant to cut back on our reserves.  Sigh.

Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Donna and Ani - Trust me, I know what you mean about the budget busting stuff - both the weather (expecting 8-10 inches here tomorrow, just as warm temps have finally melted most of it off ;-), but also the food.  Six of us cost a lot - we can eat down our food storage, and mitigate costs to some degree, but I think things are going to get worse before they better, so I&#8217;m reluctant to cut back on our reserves.  Sigh.</p>
<p>Sharon</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ani</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3322</link>
		<dc:creator>Ani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 20:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3322</guid>
		<description>Hi Sharon-

Welcome "back"!
One of the things I have noted is that land prices, at least where I live, don't reflect what one can actually grow on them but rather, what someone would be willing to pay for the land to build a house on it. So my neighbors bought some land for $6,000/acre- which may seem cheap to some of you-depending on where you live- but the realities of trying to pay that much for what is really marginal land-and make it pay off for agricultural production, as well as the steep property taxes it would incur yearly- not doable. So the land across the road is for sale- and it is marginal land really- good for grazing, some crops- but how am I supposed to come up with that sort of money and grow potatoes on it for market? Someone will buy it and put a house(s) on it......

I wonder at all of this- as we drive agricultural production further away- due to land prices and then expect to just ship it all back in to the people......

RE: food prices- yes-just went to the store and picked up a few items- wow- prices are really going up- very little seemed to be "on-sale" that I would even use- 

The ability of people who are living on food stamps and limited incomes to pay these costs is problematic- coupled with the rising price at the pump, heating costs- it's not going to be pretty. I know I just told my plow guy to forget about plowing the rest of the winter- I have spent $300 so far- and the snow just  keeps  on coming. I need to save money for wood for next year! I know others are doing the same thing.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sharon-</p>
<p>Welcome &#8220;back&#8221;!<br />
One of the things I have noted is that land prices, at least where I live, don&#8217;t reflect what one can actually grow on them but rather, what someone would be willing to pay for the land to build a house on it. So my neighbors bought some land for $6,000/acre- which may seem cheap to some of you-depending on where you live- but the realities of trying to pay that much for what is really marginal land-and make it pay off for agricultural production, as well as the steep property taxes it would incur yearly- not doable. So the land across the road is for sale- and it is marginal land really- good for grazing, some crops- but how am I supposed to come up with that sort of money and grow potatoes on it for market? Someone will buy it and put a house(s) on it&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>I wonder at all of this- as we drive agricultural production further away- due to land prices and then expect to just ship it all back in to the people&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>RE: food prices- yes-just went to the store and picked up a few items- wow- prices are really going up- very little seemed to be &#8220;on-sale&#8221; that I would even use- </p>
<p>The ability of people who are living on food stamps and limited incomes to pay these costs is problematic- coupled with the rising price at the pump, heating costs- it&#8217;s not going to be pretty. I know I just told my plow guy to forget about plowing the rest of the winter- I have spent $300 so far- and the snow just  keeps  on coming. I need to save money for wood for next year! I know others are doing the same thing&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Harmony</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3320</link>
		<dc:creator>Harmony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://sharonastyk.com/2008/02/24/how-expensive-is-food-really/#comment-3320</guid>
		<description>Hi Sharon!  I waited anxiously, checking regularly, for your return and I'm so glad you are back!  You are a guiding light to me, as you are a down to earth "real person",  an inspiration to push myself to expand my personal and family efforts.  And you do it in a gentle, encouraging style that makes it clear that every step forward is a step forward.  

I have always loved gardening, being in contact with the earth and nature has always calmed my spirit and balanced me.  Since I've been reading your blog I've expanded my garden efforts to getting involved in our local community garden as well as container gardening in my own small yard.  Your Victory garden call struck a deep cord in me,  I feel it is so important to get more and more people involved  in growing their own.  Last year my 3 youngest helped in our community garden space and loved every minute.  I am a member of my town's food security group, and find myself frustrated that encouraging people to start or expand their own food growing efforts isn't going to happen until next year.  However I will stick with it, and "gently" try to speed that  up.

     I will be converting at least one third of my "yard" to garden this year, a labour intensive project that will be well worth it in expanded garden space.  I'm having so much fun going through my Seed Saver catalogue and the on line Seed Trust catalogue (they offer heirloom seeds that do well in short growing seasons) and have mentally placed orders that are at least 4 times the amount I can grow!  

     I have to say that when I read comments that our food is "cheap", I get a shiver of fear.  Since I have a large family, the amount of money I spend on food is higher than average, over a third of my totall monthly income, and I avoid processed foods!  It doesn't seem very cheap to me, and is only getting worse.   It is a growing incentive to expand my family's ability to provide for itself. 

     Sorry  this has gotten so long and rambling, I'm not great at straight to the point writing obviously!!lol!  However, one more thing before I go, your blog on knitting inspired me to learn how.  I'm only at a beginner level now, scarves and blankets are my current limit, but hope to learn socks  in the near future!  As you said more elliquently than I, it is a shame (and frightening in a way) that so many skills of our grandparents are now forgotten as our society has become dependant on others for things we used to do for ourselves.

     Thanks for your writings and inspirations, can't wait for your books!

Donna</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Sharon!  I waited anxiously, checking regularly, for your return and I&#8217;m so glad you are back!  You are a guiding light to me, as you are a down to earth &#8220;real person&#8221;,  an inspiration to push myself to expand my personal and family efforts.  And you do it in a gentle, encouraging style that makes it clear that every step forward is a step forward.  </p>
<p>I have always loved gardening, being in contact with the earth and nature has always calmed my spirit and balanced me.  Since I&#8217;ve been reading your blog I&#8217;ve expanded my garden efforts to getting involved in our local community garden as well as container gardening in my own small yard.  Your Victory garden call struck a deep cord in me,  I feel it is so important to get more and more people involved  in growing their own.  Last year my 3 youngest helped in our community garden space and loved every minute.  I am a member of my town&#8217;s food security group, and find myself frustrated that encouraging people to start or expand their own food growing efforts isn&#8217;t going to happen until next year.  However I will stick with it, and &#8220;gently&#8221; try to speed that  up.</p>
<p>     I will be converting at least one third of my &#8220;yard&#8221; to garden this year, a labour intensive project that will be well worth it in expanded garden space.  I&#8217;m having so much fun going through my Seed Saver catalogue and the on line Seed Trust catalogue (they offer heirloom seeds that do well in short growing seasons) and have mentally placed orders that are at least 4 times the amount I can grow!  </p>
<p>     I have to say that when I read comments that our food is &#8220;cheap&#8221;, I get a shiver of fear.  Since I have a large family, the amount of money I spend on food is higher than average, over a third of my totall monthly income, and I avoid processed foods!  It doesn&#8217;t seem very cheap to me, and is only getting worse.   It is a growing incentive to expand my family&#8217;s ability to provide for itself. </p>
<p>     Sorry  this has gotten so long and rambling, I&#8217;m not great at straight to the point writing obviously!!lol!  However, one more thing before I go, your blog on knitting inspired me to learn how.  I&#8217;m only at a beginner level now, scarves and blankets are my current limit, but hope to learn socks  in the near future!  As you said more elliquently than I, it is a shame (and frightening in a way) that so many skills of our grandparents are now forgotten as our society has become dependant on others for things we used to do for ourselves.</p>
<p>     Thanks for your writings and inspirations, can&#8217;t wait for your books!</p>
<p>Donna</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
