Comments on: The “Holy Crap” Files http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:52:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: A Must Read on Peak Oil… http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3461 A Must Read on Peak Oil… Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:15:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3461 [...] Holly Crap [...] […] Holly Crap […]

]]> By: Idaho Locavore http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3395 Idaho Locavore Wed, 05 Mar 2008 02:27:07 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3395 >>See this post at itulip. It has links to the growing issues of salinity in irrigated Saudi Arabian farm lands<< Thanks, anon. I read both the forum note and the paper you linked. I grew up in the southern end of the San Joaquin Valley, and increasing salinity in the desert topsoil is something the farmers have to fight all the time in their irrigated fields. I'm not surprised the Saudis are having similar problems. Salinity may not be the main reason they've decided to stop farming grains at home but it does seem to at least be a contributor. >>See this post at itulip. It has links to the growing issues of salinity in irrigated Saudi Arabian farm lands<<

Thanks, anon. I read both the forum note and the paper you linked.

I grew up in the southern end of the San Joaquin Valley, and increasing salinity in the desert topsoil is something the farmers have to fight all the time in their irrigated fields. I’m not surprised the Saudis are having similar problems. Salinity may not be the main reason they’ve decided to stop farming grains at home but it does seem to at least be a contributor.

]]> By: anon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3393 anon Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:44:36 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3393 See <a href="http://www.itulip.com/forums/showpost.php?p=29345&postcount=1" rel="nofollow">this post</a> at itulip. It has links to the growing issues of salinity in irrigated Saudi Arabian farm lands See this post at itulip. It has links to the growing issues of salinity in irrigated Saudi Arabian farm lands

]]> By: Leila Abu-Saba http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3385 Leila Abu-Saba Tue, 04 Mar 2008 17:47:21 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3385 How confusing. Two Leilas? I am the original Leila (Bedouina) and I'll start using my last name here. I was confused myself when I read the third Leila post - I didn't write that! Nice to see you, other Leila! How confusing. Two Leilas? I am the original Leila (Bedouina) and I’ll start using my last name here. I was confused myself when I read the third Leila post - I didn’t write that!

Nice to see you, other Leila!

]]> By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3384 Sharon Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:54:58 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3384 Mary, I think the water used to keep up production in oil fields is salt ocean water, not fresh drinking water. Sharon Mary, I think the water used to keep up production in oil fields is salt ocean water, not fresh drinking water.

Sharon

]]> By: Leila http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3382 Leila Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:28:58 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3382 Saudis wouldn't even be growing wheat without it being as heavily subsidized as it is now. Maybe they have realized that it is cheaper to outsource? Plus there have been wheat shortages there due to the subsized wheat being fed to animals instead of going to the bakeries. And apparently there is a huge black market of it being exported to egypt/sudan. Leila (different than above Leila) Saudis wouldn’t even be growing wheat without it being as heavily subsidized as it is now. Maybe they have realized that it is cheaper to outsource? Plus there have been wheat shortages there due to the subsized wheat being fed to animals instead of going to the bakeries. And apparently there is a huge black market of it being exported to egypt/sudan.
Leila
(different than above Leila)

]]> By: Old_Grey_Mare http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3381 Old_Grey_Mare Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:16:30 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3381 If I am not mistaken, they also use water for injecting into the oil wells to increase production Mary If I am not mistaken, they also use water for injecting into the oil wells to increase production

Mary

]]> By: Leila http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3379 Leila Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:43:28 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3379 Rock and a hard place for the Egyptians, I would say. The Saudis tend to get what they want. You can't imagine how much fertile land Egypt has paved over in the last thirty years. It's a heartbreaker. Rock and a hard place for the Egyptians, I would say. The Saudis tend to get what they want.

You can’t imagine how much fertile land Egypt has paved over in the last thirty years. It’s a heartbreaker.

]]> By: Idaho Locavore http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3376 Idaho Locavore Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:28:04 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3376 “the Saudis are apparently renting irrigated land in Sudan and Egypt ($500 per hectare) and hiring the locals to produce their wheat need. He said something like half a million hectares in Sudan, or $250 millions in land rental per year.” What that means (since the Egyptians are net IMporters of wheat) is the Saudis are now competing with the Egyptians, on their own soil, for Egyptian-grown wheat. My guess is the government will eventually put a stop to that arrangement, as prices rise and reserves grow even shorter. I don't see any way around that. “the Saudis are apparently renting irrigated land in Sudan and Egypt ($500 per hectare) and hiring the locals to produce their wheat need. He said something like half a million hectares in Sudan, or $250 millions in land rental per year.”

What that means (since the Egyptians are net IMporters of wheat) is the Saudis are now competing with the Egyptians, on their own soil, for Egyptian-grown wheat.

My guess is the government will eventually put a stop to that arrangement, as prices rise and reserves grow even shorter. I don’t see any way around that.

]]> By: Leila http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3375 Leila Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:55:48 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/03/03/the-holy-crap-files/#comment-3375 This has no external internet link/source, it's a bit of gossip from a food and agriculture professor at the American U. of Beirut. He heard the same news from a colleague, with this addendum: "the Saudis are apparently renting irrigated land in Sudan and Egypt ($500 per hectare) and hiring the locals to produce their wheat need. He said something like half a million hectares in Sudan, or $250 millions in land rental per year." http://landandpeople.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-heard-from-colleague-today-that-saudi.html#links The Saudis are outsourcing. Look at the map. Sudan and Egypt are closer to Saudi than Kansas is to New York State, by a long shot. I'm not saying this is a great solution, but it is a solution that makes some sense to this amateur bystander. Of course they're having food riots in Egypt, and wheat shortages all over the Arab world, and they've been building on arable land all over the Arab world (and Israel) for two generations. My grandparents on the coast of Lebanon grew wheat on property that's all planted with concrete high-rises today. (The family sold out in the 60s). Oh yes, and the refugee camp of Ain-el-Helweh sits on some of our best wheat-growing arable land. Tell me when you think *that* question is going to get resolved - we still hold title but we're waiting for Middle East Peace or Armageddon, whichever comes first, before we can expect the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or otherwise leave the camp. (or we might get compensated - I'm not holding my breath). And the property is still paved over so it's not going back to wheat farming for generations. This has no external internet link/source, it’s a bit of gossip from a food and agriculture professor at the American U. of Beirut. He heard the same news from a colleague, with this addendum:

“the Saudis are apparently renting irrigated land in Sudan and Egypt ($500 per hectare) and hiring the locals to produce their wheat need. He said something like half a million hectares in Sudan, or $250 millions in land rental per year.”

http://landandpeople.blogspot.com/2008/03/i-heard-from-colleague-today-that-saudi.html#links

The Saudis are outsourcing. Look at the map. Sudan and Egypt are closer to Saudi than Kansas is to New York State, by a long shot. I’m not saying this is a great solution, but it is a solution that makes some sense to this amateur bystander.

Of course they’re having food riots in Egypt, and wheat shortages all over the Arab world, and they’ve been building on arable land all over the Arab world (and Israel) for two generations. My grandparents on the coast of Lebanon grew wheat on property that’s all planted with concrete high-rises today. (The family sold out in the 60s). Oh yes, and the refugee camp of Ain-el-Helweh sits on some of our best wheat-growing arable land. Tell me when you think *that* question is going to get resolved - we still hold title but we’re waiting for Middle East Peace or Armageddon, whichever comes first, before we can expect the Palestinian refugees to return to their homes or otherwise leave the camp. (or we might get compensated - I’m not holding my breath). And the property is still paved over so it’s not going back to wheat farming for generations.

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