Comments on: Which History are We Recalling? http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:39:44 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: Pratimoksha http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4423 Pratimoksha Mon, 14 Apr 2008 01:19:51 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4423 While I fully sympathize with those serving in the military for what they see as a worthy cause (and with their families waiting at home) - I cannot begin to imagine how frightening and difficult this must be - I always feel uncomfortable reading articles on Iraq mentioning the now more than 4000 deaths in Iraq. What about the hundreds of thousands of deaths? What kind of people only count US lives lost? I don't actually live in the US, so I cannot tell firsthand, but I wonder if this is a common way of seeing things. Do many people - even those fully in support of a speedy pullout from Iraq - primarily value the lives of the US soldiers? If not, why then is that how discussions are so often framed? How many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have died as a result of the US invasion? Wendy, you mention things we may or may not be able to keep going if a serious social disruption is to materialize. One of my big fears that we won't have access to asthma medicine for my son. Such a mundane, simple thing, and yet it has such an impact on the quality of his life. In fact, I don't know what would happen if access to such medicines were permanently cut off. I cannot really grasp the whole picture of an economic, political and social collapse - the full picture is too much to hold - but it hits me on a gut level when I think of little details like that. Asthma is a minor problem in my son's life - just something that makes P.E. class a bit harder, and he tends to get a cold more easily - but would perhaps not cope very well with life if he no longer got the medicine. While I fully sympathize with those serving in the military for what they see as a worthy cause (and with their families waiting at home) - I cannot begin to imagine how frightening and difficult this must be - I always feel uncomfortable reading articles on Iraq mentioning the now more than 4000 deaths in Iraq. What about the hundreds of thousands of deaths? What kind of people only count US lives lost?

I don’t actually live in the US, so I cannot tell firsthand, but I wonder if this is a common way of seeing things. Do many people - even those fully in support of a speedy pullout from Iraq - primarily value the lives of the US soldiers? If not, why then is that how discussions are so often framed? How many hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis have died as a result of the US invasion?

Wendy, you mention things we may or may not be able to keep going if a serious social disruption is to materialize. One of my big fears that we won’t have access to asthma medicine for my son. Such a mundane, simple thing, and yet it has such an impact on the quality of his life. In fact, I don’t know what would happen if access to such medicines were permanently cut off.

I cannot really grasp the whole picture of an economic, political and social collapse - the full picture is too much to hold - but it hits me on a gut level when I think of little details like that. Asthma is a minor problem in my son’s life - just something that makes P.E. class a bit harder, and he tends to get a cold more easily - but would perhaps not cope very well with life if he no longer got the medicine.

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By: Roger http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4382 Roger Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:10:13 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4382 I just read the entire article. If anyone has not yet read it, do read Howard Zinn's People's History of The US . Thank you Sharon for bringing this article to my attention. My question is, what swell parts of our history do you anchor to? I will say that as a white male, I have a sweet deal here in the good ol'US of A. In fact, most of us white educated folks of both genders do. But what do the people of color cling to in our glorious history? The conquest of the Phillipines, the theft of Hawaii? The holocaust of 10-15 000,000 indigenous people. Hmmmmm, seems like we are doomed to being anchorless or delusional. I just read the entire article. If anyone has not yet read it, do read Howard Zinn’s People’s History of The US .
Thank you Sharon for bringing this article to my attention. My question is, what swell parts of our history do you anchor to? I will say that as a white male, I have a sweet deal here in the good ol’US of A. In fact, most of us white educated folks of both genders do. But what do the people of color cling to in our glorious history? The conquest of the Phillipines, the theft of Hawaii? The holocaust of 10-15 000,000 indigenous people.
Hmmmmm, seems like we are doomed to being anchorless or delusional.

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By: MEA http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4335 MEA Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:58:21 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4335 There has never been, alas, a golden age. There have, however, been times when we had higher ideals about what we should be striving for (i.e. universal sufferage) and lower (i.e. the third reich). I can only hope that we go into this new era with high ideals. There has never been, alas, a golden age. There have, however, been times when we had higher ideals about what we should be striving for (i.e. universal sufferage) and lower (i.e. the third reich). I can only hope that we go into this new era with high ideals.

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By: Sarah http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4334 Sarah Thu, 10 Apr 2008 12:16:12 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4334 Tom -- one of the example sentences in my Latin textbook translated as "You were seeing the women in the streets, but you were not shouting about their beauty. You must be punished". My favorite was "He was the only man in Rome who did not know what his daughter was doing." Tom — one of the example sentences in my Latin textbook translated as “You were seeing the women in the streets, but you were not shouting about their beauty. You must be punished”. My favorite was “He was the only man in Rome who did not know what his daughter was doing.”

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By: Toomas (Tom) Karmo http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4333 Toomas (Tom) Karmo Thu, 10 Apr 2008 03:39:04 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4333 Dear Sharon, One way of keeping our links to the past is through studies in literature. Back in October, I resolved to spend 3 hours a week reviewing and reviving my Latin. As of 2008-04-04, I had done 80 hours, 45 minutes on the project, and this is enough to cover quite a lot of ground, with some reasonable exposure to fragements of Virgil. And the sentences in my textbook! At one point someone is saying something like "I have no difficulty in abstaining from eels and oysters'". At another point, the grammatical example goes something like "And I ask myself: SHALL I buy these people?" And oh the joys of very occasional outside reading! It's exciting now poring through a part of the essay on Peak Oil, "Apocalypsis Petrolearia", by "Brennus Americanus" (Brian the American) at http://www.alcuinus.net/ephemeris/archi2004/themata/thema_nov/index.php A good line from his essay: "Paulatim grassabitur nova et perpetua aetas obscura" - "Little by little, there will encroach a new and perpetual dark age." One feels grounded amd anchored on studying this stuff. It's not that the Romans were nice. Quite the reverse: as a Catholic, I think what they did to the Jewish nation - I think, for instance, of that menorah carried in triumph in the freize in the triumphal arch in the Forum, that you can see on a tourist visit to Rome - and I shiver. But their fall is instructive. It would be bad if in our own fall, ready access to Latin textbooks were to disappear. Sincerely, Tom Karmo verbum at interlog dot com www.metascientia.com Dear Sharon,

One way of keeping our links to the past is through studies in literature. Back in October, I resolved to spend 3 hours a week reviewing and reviving my Latin. As of 2008-04-04, I had done 80 hours, 45 minutes on the project, and this is enough to cover quite a lot of ground, with some reasonable exposure to fragements of Virgil.

And the sentences in my textbook! At one point someone is saying something like “I have no difficulty in abstaining from eels and oysters’”. At another point, the grammatical example goes something like “And I ask myself: SHALL I buy these people?”

And oh the joys of very occasional outside reading! It’s exciting now poring through a part of the essay on Peak Oil, “Apocalypsis Petrolearia”, by “Brennus Americanus” (Brian the American) at
http://www.alcuinus.net/ephemeris/archi2004/themata/thema_nov/index.php
A good line from his essay: “Paulatim grassabitur nova et perpetua aetas obscura” - “Little by little, there will encroach a new and perpetual dark age.”

One feels grounded amd anchored on studying this stuff. It’s not that the Romans were nice. Quite the reverse: as a Catholic, I think what they did to the Jewish nation - I think, for instance, of that menorah carried in triumph in the freize in the triumphal arch in the Forum, that you can see on a tourist visit to Rome - and I shiver. But their fall is instructive. It would be bad if in our own fall, ready access to Latin textbooks were to disappear.

Sincerely,

Tom Karmo
verbum at interlog dot com
http://www.metascientia.com

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By: Wendy http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4329 Wendy Wed, 09 Apr 2008 17:49:06 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/04/09/which-history-are-we-recalling/#comment-4329 Very good points, Sharon, and I completely agree. My hope is that we can really embrace the best of what we have today with the best of what we had in the past and make a better tomorrow. Some technologies would be nice to retain (like the Internet and being able to call my parents who live several states away from me). It would also be nice to be able to keep some "modern medicine", but realize that much of it (like most obstetrical care, which studies have shown is better handled by trained midwives) is unnecessary overkill, and many of our modern "illnesses" are a direct result of diet and lifestyle choices. I think it's important that while we're lose much of what makes life today convenient, that we don't also revert back to Middle Age attitudes, prejudices and fears, and instead we go forward more enlightened, voluntarily accepting more simple lives so that we can keep some of the really great "advances" that have been made. That's my hope, anyway :). Very good points, Sharon, and I completely agree. My hope is that we can really embrace the best of what we have today with the best of what we had in the past and make a better tomorrow. Some technologies would be nice to retain (like the Internet and being able to call my parents who live several states away from me). It would also be nice to be able to keep some “modern medicine”, but realize that much of it (like most obstetrical care, which studies have shown is better handled by trained midwives) is unnecessary overkill, and many of our modern “illnesses” are a direct result of diet and lifestyle choices.

I think it’s important that while we’re lose much of what makes life today convenient, that we don’t also revert back to Middle Age attitudes, prejudices and fears, and instead we go forward more enlightened, voluntarily accepting more simple lives so that we can keep some of the really great “advances” that have been made.

That’s my hope, anyway :).

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