Comments on: Finally – The Gate To Women's Country http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/ Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess. Thu, 24 May 2012 02:38:00 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: karty http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-50687 karty Tue, 23 Aug 2011 16:33:52 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-50687 Fantastic goods from you, man. I've understand your stuff previous to and you are just extremely fantastic. I really like what you've acquired here, certainly like what you are stating and the way in which you say it. You make it entertaining and you still take care of to keep it wise. I can not wait to read much more from you. This is really a terrific website. Fantastic goods from you, man. I’ve understand your stuff previous to and you are just extremely fantastic. I really like what you’ve acquired here, certainly like what you are stating and the way in which you say it. You make it entertaining and you still take care of to keep it wise. I can not wait to read much more from you. This is really a terrific website.

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]]> By: Jenn http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8266 Jenn Tue, 02 Sep 2008 03:22:23 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8266 I finally made it through the book, but kept getting stuck on the idea of nature versus nurture. While I was certainly bothered by the idea of breeding out male qualities that are seen to be bad, I think I was possibly more disturbed that these were qualities that were "encouraged," albeit in a somewhat roundabout way, but the society itself. If boys are sent off to be warriors, are taught to be violent and war like from the age of five, and then it's made extremely difficult for them to come back (especially for those who are apparently torn by the choice), then it feels to me like the women are almost at a place where they're justifying the breeding by setting up men to fail, by and large. I understand the point is to retrieve only those who are non-violent enough to return in order to continue that genetic heritage, but the way in which Tepper sets up the process I found to be problematic and, again, almost a self-fulfilling prophesy of maleness to justify genetic selection. I finally made it through the book, but kept getting stuck on the idea of nature versus nurture. While I was certainly bothered by the idea of breeding out male qualities that are seen to be bad, I think I was possibly more disturbed that these were qualities that were “encouraged,” albeit in a somewhat roundabout way, but the society itself. If boys are sent off to be warriors, are taught to be violent and war like from the age of five, and then it’s made extremely difficult for them to come back (especially for those who are apparently torn by the choice), then it feels to me like the women are almost at a place where they’re justifying the breeding by setting up men to fail, by and large. I understand the point is to retrieve only those who are non-violent enough to return in order to continue that genetic heritage, but the way in which Tepper sets up the process I found to be problematic and, again, almost a self-fulfilling prophesy of maleness to justify genetic selection.

]]> By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8265 Sharon Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:58:16 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8265 I agree with Rosa - the idea that women would never give up their kids seems fundamentally wrong to me - of course they would, with the appropriate societal justification. We don't much like acknowledging that something as basic as our feelings towards our children can be culturally constructed, but it certainly can. There's good historical evidence that people have loved children through most of human history - and good evidence that they also haven't very much, or that love hasn't been enough to overcome other pressures. Sharon I agree with Rosa – the idea that women would never give up their kids seems fundamentally wrong to me – of course they would, with the appropriate societal justification. We don’t much like acknowledging that something as basic as our feelings towards our children can be culturally constructed, but it certainly can. There’s good historical evidence that people have loved children through most of human history – and good evidence that they also haven’t very much, or that love hasn’t been enough to overcome other pressures.

Sharon

]]> By: Susan in NJ http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8264 Susan in NJ Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:54:02 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8264 Marian, I agree that Tepper's writing has a lot in common with bodice ripper fiction, and in some cases, seems to actually be a riff on it. Thanks for reminding of this thought, which I had when I first read her years ago. Marian, I agree that Tepper’s writing has a lot in common with bodice ripper fiction, and in some cases, seems to actually be a riff on it. Thanks for reminding of this thought, which I had when I first read her years ago.

]]> By: Rosa http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8263 Rosa Mon, 01 Sep 2008 03:16:51 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8263 It's late in the conversation, but Hausfraus' feeling that giving up sons is unthinkable and people wouldn't do it...there have been a number of social groups where woman lose access to their sons at a pretty early age (men too, in some of them.) I didn't find that unbelievable at all. Think of the British classes that sent sons off to boarding school at 7 (and I have met Americans from rich East Coast families that went off to boarding school at 8 or 9, and only saw each parent on alternate holidays after that.) In a lot of patriarchal cultures women lose their kids if they are divorced, and that was true in our own culture up through the 1890s at least, for formal legal divorces. People sell their own children, boys and girls; they selectively nurture some over others; they routinely discriminate against kids in their care who aren't their own flesh and blood, or decide that difficult infants are "born to die", stolen by fairies, or inhabited by demons. Other people buy children, steal them, allow them to die of overwork or starvation or dirty water. I think assuming that any culture won't go along with giving up children is just a dream. Especially because in our own culture, young men and women are still commonly considered dependent children right up to the day before they are eligible to enlist in the armed services, and many parents encourage their own children to do that knowing there is a strong chance they will be damaged or killed. It’s late in the conversation, but Hausfraus’ feeling that giving up sons is unthinkable and people wouldn’t do it…there have been a number of social groups where woman lose access to their sons at a pretty early age (men too, in some of them.) I didn’t find that unbelievable at all. Think of the British classes that sent sons off to boarding school at 7 (and I have met Americans from rich East Coast families that went off to boarding school at 8 or 9, and only saw each parent on alternate holidays after that.) In a lot of patriarchal cultures women lose their kids if they are divorced, and that was true in our own culture up through the 1890s at least, for formal legal divorces.

People sell their own children, boys and girls; they selectively nurture some over others; they routinely discriminate against kids in their care who aren’t their own flesh and blood, or decide that difficult infants are “born to die”, stolen by fairies, or inhabited by demons.

Other people buy children, steal them, allow them to die of overwork or starvation or dirty water. I think assuming that any culture won’t go along with giving up children is just a dream. Especially because in our own culture, young men and women are still commonly considered dependent children right up to the day before they are eligible to enlist in the armed services, and many parents encourage their own children to do that knowing there is a strong chance they will be damaged or killed.

]]> By: marian http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8262 marian Mon, 01 Sep 2008 00:43:55 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8262 what fun! to read a string of thoughts on Sherri Tepper, it's been ages since I read 'Gate..' so can't really remember much. I just get a charge from her fantasies with reality. 'Just imagine if'......, I know her writing is not the most high-brow, but to me it is my secret 'bodice ripper' addiction with some substance thrown in. The last book I read was 'The Margarets' and it was worth reading the book for one line : two aliens discussing eating people ..'can't stand the ones who have been smoking cigarettes, they taste terrible"!! I think this line sums up Teppers writing, it's not to be taken that seriously, the other great bit in the Margarets is where Jerusalem is made to disappear ............how easy it is in one's imagination to solve problems, love to all,from an Australian voyeur. what fun! to read a string of thoughts on Sherri Tepper, it’s been ages since I read ‘Gate..’ so can’t really remember much. I just get a charge from her fantasies with reality. ‘Just imagine if’……, I know her writing is not the most high-brow, but to me it is my secret ‘bodice ripper’ addiction with some substance thrown in. The last book I read was ‘The Margarets’ and it was worth reading the book for one line : two aliens discussing eating people ..’can’t stand the ones who have been smoking cigarettes, they taste terrible”!! I think this line sums up Teppers writing, it’s not to be taken that seriously, the other great bit in the Margarets is where Jerusalem is made to disappear …………how easy it is in one’s imagination to solve problems, love to all,from an Australian voyeur.

]]> By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8261 Sharon Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:58:07 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8261 Umm, Wolf, you do realize this is a novel, right? Sharon Umm, Wolf, you do realize this is a novel, right?

Sharon

]]> By: Wolf http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/comment-page-1/#comment-8260 Wolf Sun, 31 Aug 2008 03:06:09 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/08/29/finally-the-gate-to-womens-country/#comment-8260 Breeding men to be more feminine? I think we already have that and what ahs that got us? A society of entitlement seeking, poor work ethic, in touch with their feelings generation.Let us see the end result of that....Here come a huge asteroid to hit the planet Earth. If we ask nicely and hope it joins the local feminist group it will decide to miss us. Yeah right....Men are men and women are women. Accept it as the many generations before us did. We can have better relationships through better understanding. You know...That small thing called communication. I think those who cant communicate should be "breeded out" of existence along with the "drama queens". Life is hard enough....Why add extra drama with bad choices? Oh I'm sorry. I thought I was talking to an audience that could think rationally and logically. Ooops. My bad. Welcome to America. Breeding men to be more feminine? I think we already have that and what ahs that got us? A society of entitlement seeking, poor work ethic, in touch with their feelings generation.Let us see the end result of that….Here come a huge asteroid to hit the planet Earth. If we ask nicely and hope it joins the local feminist group it will decide to miss us. Yeah right….Men are men and women are women. Accept it as the many generations before us did. We can have better relationships through better understanding. You know…That small thing called communication. I think those who cant communicate should be “breeded out” of existence along with the “drama queens”. Life is hard enough….Why add extra drama with bad choices? Oh I’m sorry. I thought I was talking to an audience that could think rationally and logically. Ooops. My bad. Welcome to America.

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