Comments on: Love, Schmove - Just Tell Me How to Build Community With the Guy Who Mows His Lawn in his Speedo! http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:40:38 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: anonymous http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10152 anonymous Wed, 10 Sep 2008 14:34:10 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10152 Sharon, So, you got me with the title. I confess to owning and wearing Speedo's in my back yard. Alas, I have not the .. uh.. courage to wear them mowing the front lawn, but I'd like to! But here's the thing. I prefer to wear nothing at all! As living in suburbia makes it difficult to wear nothing, my neighbors are treated to the occasional Speedo. Try as I might, I cannot convince my lovely wife that wearing nothing is the hot setup. My argument runs along these lines: Reducing clothing reduces the need to wash said clothing, reducing the need to use (hot) water, reducing the need for drying clothing. I could really go quite a bit farther too! Reducing clothing reduces the need to store the clothing reducing the need to have our overly gigantic house, reducing the need for heat, etc, etc.... and ultimately solving solving most of the worlds problems. Anyway, she thinks I'm a loon. (credit to you for the word) I'll spare you the visual by signing 'anonymous' Sharon,

So, you got me with the title.

I confess to owning and wearing Speedo’s in my back yard. Alas, I have not the .. uh.. courage to wear them mowing the front lawn, but I’d like to!

But here’s the thing. I prefer to wear nothing at all! As living in suburbia makes it difficult to wear nothing, my neighbors are treated to the occasional Speedo.

Try as I might, I cannot convince my lovely wife that wearing nothing is the hot setup. My argument runs along these lines: Reducing clothing reduces the need to wash said clothing, reducing the need to use (hot) water, reducing the need for drying clothing. I could really go quite a bit farther too! Reducing clothing reduces the need to store the clothing reducing the need to have our overly gigantic house, reducing the need for heat, etc, etc…. and ultimately solving solving most of the worlds problems.

Anyway, she thinks I’m a loon. (credit to you for the word)

I’ll spare you the visual by signing ‘anonymous’

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By: RC http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10132 RC Tue, 09 Sep 2008 23:14:00 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10132 Thank you very much Chile for your explanation. I certainly hope you can get yourself free and move on to the next location very soon. I guess you have already considered renting out both the place you are in, and the other one you own {I hope I got that right} and moving to your new location and waiting for the market to improve. I don't know what state or town you are in, but depending upon that info, you may have between 6 months and 6 years to wait for a sale. If you read Ilargi I am sure you have gotten the picture. The 1970s were a similar period. People became trapped where they were, slaes were slow and rare, mortgages were very {absurdly} expensive in the stagflation doldrums. May be best to find a deal that you can live with and move on. Again, making the best of the drug culture: a client of mine who had moved on to Phoenix {job} from our little town on a small island here, decided mot to sell her house because straightening out the title was too difficult an expensive, so she rented it out and left, bought a house in Phoenix, and when she had legal problems with the renters {they transformed themselves magically into evil non-paying squatters} she returned, talked to the mid level drug dealer that lived across the street, sold the house to him on payments, didn't bother to fix the title, he said he didn't care, and she returned to her head nurse job in Arizona on the fourth day. Again, you may be missing an out not considering selling to a creep. Many creeps have money. You may have moral problems dealing with a person who probably has ill-gotten goods, BUT, are you buying goods from China? How moral are you? Moral enough to stick around in crimeville and starve? Think about it. I'm suggesting that waiting has a habit of eating up one's life. Thank you very much Chile for your explanation. I certainly hope you can get yourself free and move on to the next location very soon.
I guess you have already considered renting out both the place you are in, and the other one you own {I hope I got that right} and moving to your new location and waiting for the market to improve.
I don’t know what state or town you are in, but depending upon that info, you may have between 6 months and 6 years to wait for a sale. If you read Ilargi I am sure you have gotten the picture.
The 1970s were a similar period. People became trapped where they were, slaes were slow and rare, mortgages were very {absurdly} expensive in the stagflation doldrums.
May be best to find a deal that you can live with and move on.
Again, making the best of the drug culture: a client of mine who had moved on to Phoenix {job} from our little town on a small island here, decided mot to sell her house because straightening out the title was too difficult an expensive, so she rented it out and left, bought a house in Phoenix, and when she had legal problems with the renters {they transformed themselves magically into evil non-paying squatters} she returned, talked to the mid level drug dealer that lived across the street, sold the house to him on payments, didn’t bother to fix the title, he said he didn’t care, and she returned to her head nurse job in Arizona on the fourth day.
Again, you may be missing an out not considering selling to a creep. Many creeps have money. You may have moral problems dealing with a person who probably has ill-gotten goods, BUT, are you buying goods from China? How moral are you? Moral enough to stick around in crimeville and starve?
Think about it. I’m suggesting that waiting has a habit of eating up one’s life.

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By: paleobotanist http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10079 paleobotanist Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:17:50 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10079 ah - but what do you do with the neighbor who beats his wife/girlfriend and likes waving around machine guns? or the neighbor who likes giving full-body roundhouse blows to her little girl's head? we have by and large been fortunate with our neighbors, but before our recent move, the large 6ft plus 200 lb + neighbor who got his thrills threatening the street's women and hurting pets and who the police wouldn't touch him because because daddy was high up in law enforcement was too much. i was glad to move. we are practiced in getting along with neighbors who aren't violent, but there are violent people out there. I suspect your point Sharon was that if they're not violent, you can find common ground with work, but violence is not uncommon and hard times often make family violence increase. Let's say police and social services turn a blind eye often. ah - but what do you do with the neighbor who beats his wife/girlfriend and likes waving around machine guns? or the neighbor who likes giving full-body roundhouse blows to her little girl’s head? we have by and large been fortunate with our neighbors, but before our recent move, the large 6ft plus 200 lb + neighbor who got his thrills threatening the street’s women and hurting pets and who the police wouldn’t touch him because because daddy was high up in law enforcement was too much. i was glad to move. we are practiced in getting along with neighbors who aren’t violent, but there are violent people out there. I suspect your point Sharon was that if they’re not violent, you can find common ground with work, but violence is not uncommon and hard times often make family violence increase. Let’s say police and social services turn a blind eye often.

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By: seraphima http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10057 seraphima Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:52:12 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10057 One of the best ways to build community and be part of community is to join your local volunteer fire dept. Great people who are already service oriented, know everybody, are prepared for emergencies, and can teach you everything from how to put out a house fire to giving medical treatment to someone in full arrest. Lots of camaderie, you'll get to know all the roads, and you will quickly be part of the community. One of the best ways to build community and be part of community is to join your local volunteer fire dept. Great people who are already service oriented, know everybody, are prepared for emergencies, and can teach you everything from how to put out a house fire to giving medical treatment to someone in full arrest. Lots of camaderie, you’ll get to know all the roads, and you will quickly be part of the community.

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By: Tara http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10039 Tara Mon, 08 Sep 2008 13:41:48 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10039 I appreciate all the suggestions! I will say, however, that I would NEVER go to church just to meet people. It seems terribly deceitful at worst, and at best it puts me in the very awkward position of having to explain that I'm really not interested in what they're talking about, I just want to meet people. Somehow I don't think that will win me any friends. It's like my husband and I joining a singles group to meet people. Plus, I just don't believe there's any point in getting into something that you have zero interest in. You won't enjoy it and everyone will know you don't enjoy it. I mean, would you join a dog owners' club if you were a cat person? I appreciate all the suggestions! I will say, however, that I would NEVER go to church just to meet people. It seems terribly deceitful at worst, and at best it puts me in the very awkward position of having to explain that I’m really not interested in what they’re talking about, I just want to meet people. Somehow I don’t think that will win me any friends. It’s like my husband and I joining a singles group to meet people. Plus, I just don’t believe there’s any point in getting into something that you have zero interest in. You won’t enjoy it and everyone will know you don’t enjoy it. I mean, would you join a dog owners’ club if you were a cat person?

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By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10037 Sharon Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:44:50 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10037 Chile - I just don't understand why you don't join in the obvious community structures around you. A few weeks hanging out with the druggies and such, you might form a cooperative buying program! ;-). I admit, I don't get why "work at building community" translates to so many people as "let your brains rot out your ears." Of course some people are not nice. Of course it is not smart to get to know your thief neighbors and trust them. But clearly even Chile does have some decent neighbors - it is just a lot of work, maybe not enough to be worthwhile, since she's moving - to deal with them. This is not all "let's hold hands and sing" - this is "use those nice big brains you got to get what you can with what you have, since you live there anyway." Personally, if I lived in Chile's neighborhood (and I think I used to, although the guys the Swat teams were after were the landlords of our house, and they thought he might be hiding our apartment - in the middle of the night) and going to stay there I'd certainly want all the alliance I could form with the rest of the decent folk, though. Sharon Chile - I just don’t understand why you don’t join in the obvious community structures around you. A few weeks hanging out with the druggies and such, you might form a cooperative buying program! ;-).

I admit, I don’t get why “work at building community” translates to so many people as “let your brains rot out your ears.” Of course some people are not nice. Of course it is not smart to get to know your thief neighbors and trust them. But clearly even Chile does have some decent neighbors - it is just a lot of work, maybe not enough to be worthwhile, since she’s moving - to deal with them. This is not all “let’s hold hands and sing” - this is “use those nice big brains you got to get what you can with what you have, since you live there anyway.” Personally, if I lived in Chile’s neighborhood (and I think I used to, although the guys the Swat teams were after were the landlords of our house, and they thought he might be hiding our apartment - in the middle of the night) and going to stay there I’d certainly want all the alliance I could form with the rest of the decent folk, though.

Sharon

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By: Chile http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10024 Chile Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:17:03 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10024 To answer your question why I live where I live: When we rented this house almost 5 years ago, the neighborhood was not bad at all. About 2-3 years ago, apartment complexes here started doing background checks to clean up the criminal activity. At about the same time, the housing market crashed, leaving a number of people who had intended to flip houses stuck with houses they didn't really want to keep yet couldn't sell. So, these folks started renting houses. Many of them do not do background checks and are desperate to rent so a lot of less-than-desirable tenants end up in their houses. My neighborhood is approximately 50% rentals with a high turnover - used to primarily be college students who were noisy but not necessarily criminally inclined. Unfortunately, renters and short-term residents are often not interested in "forming community". In the neighborhood association meetings, we were the ONLY renters that ever showed up and had to constantly battle the "all renters are bad" attitude. (Most of our neighbors assumed we were owners.) The long-term residents in the neighborhood are slowly moving away and/or dying (since it built up in the 1950s), resulting in an influx of new folks with no neighborhood ties. We don't have the spare cash to make a temporary move while waiting to make our permanent move (which will happen as soon as we sell the house we own elsewhere). So, while it sucks to live here, we feel stuck. We do talk with some of the folks in the neighborhood and we have "community" with the CSA members, but not a lot beyond that. We hope to be out of this limbo soon and into a different, more rural, area composed of long-time residents. As natives to our state, familiar with the culture, we hope to integrate into that community fairly quickly. To answer your question why I live where I live: When we rented this house almost 5 years ago, the neighborhood was not bad at all. About 2-3 years ago, apartment complexes here started doing background checks to clean up the criminal activity. At about the same time, the housing market crashed, leaving a number of people who had intended to flip houses stuck with houses they didn’t really want to keep yet couldn’t sell. So, these folks started renting houses. Many of them do not do background checks and are desperate to rent so a lot of less-than-desirable tenants end up in their houses.

My neighborhood is approximately 50% rentals with a high turnover - used to primarily be college students who were noisy but not necessarily criminally inclined. Unfortunately, renters and short-term residents are often not interested in “forming community”. In the neighborhood association meetings, we were the ONLY renters that ever showed up and had to constantly battle the “all renters are bad” attitude. (Most of our neighbors assumed we were owners.) The long-term residents in the neighborhood are slowly moving away and/or dying (since it built up in the 1950s), resulting in an influx of new folks with no neighborhood ties.

We don’t have the spare cash to make a temporary move while waiting to make our permanent move (which will happen as soon as we sell the house we own elsewhere). So, while it sucks to live here, we feel stuck. We do talk with some of the folks in the neighborhood and we have “community” with the CSA members, but not a lot beyond that. We hope to be out of this limbo soon and into a different, more rural, area composed of long-time residents. As natives to our state, familiar with the culture, we hope to integrate into that community fairly quickly.

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By: RC http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10004 RC Sat, 06 Sep 2008 14:33:29 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10004 I was going to say something like what Andy said, but decided not to. However, after reading him again, I'll say this: thirty one years ago I did move to a neighborhood that was overrun by criminality, at that time, mostly prostitution and drug dealing. Surprisingly few muggings occurred and shootings were rare, but there were some murders that seemed to be targeting local bad actors. It turned out that because at that time local policing was more or less a criminal enterprise too {cops took money to look the other way -- this is not a theory, I witnessed it plenty} the criminals had divided up the territory and each vice had its own street corner to occupy. Male prostitues, female prostitutes, transvestite prostitutes, marijuana, cocaine {there was no crack yet, that happened maybe 7 years later}, heroine, methadone, soporifics, even opium and hashish had their little domains. It was very orderly and user friendly. I quickly realized that the local gangs {dealers} had a very enlightened concept of criminal commerce and were in fact rather sophisticated small businessmen. I joined the marijuana gang since I had the most in common with them, and they told the head of the cocaine gang who lived right next to me, to stop letting his pit bull leap at my kids {the dog was on a chain, but still}. Suddenly, the cocaine gang became very co-operative and even stopped tapping my phone lines to make long distance calls. Eventually, when I decided to move to the Caribbean, the gang got me a job with another one of their contacts in Old San Juan, fortunately a non- criminal activity, although the guy in San Juan turned out to be a hopeless coke addict. Well this is a very long story, above is only the synopsis. Why I think this may not work today is that the crack and meth scenes are heavily armed and far more crazy than the scene in Hell's Kitchen in 1977. The shooting began around 1985 and never stopped. So that leads to this question: Why oh why did Chile move to the Criminal's Paradise? Did he inherit a house? Believe gentrification was a few months away? What? I sell RE, so I am curious. People often make very strange decisions about home buying. Oh, by the way, criminals are often extremely religious and even adherents of exotic spiritual pursuits like yoga and Sufism and can be vegetarians and Kung Fu practitioners of very high order. Believe me, I know all about it. I could write a book. I was going to say something like what Andy said, but decided not to. However, after reading him again, I’ll say this: thirty one years ago I did move to a neighborhood that was overrun by criminality, at that time, mostly prostitution and drug dealing.
Surprisingly few muggings occurred and shootings were rare, but there were some murders that seemed to be targeting local bad actors. It turned out that because at that time local policing was more or less a criminal enterprise too {cops took money to look the other way — this is not a theory, I witnessed it plenty} the criminals had divided up the territory and each vice had its own street corner to occupy. Male prostitues, female prostitutes, transvestite prostitutes, marijuana, cocaine {there was no crack yet, that happened maybe 7 years later}, heroine, methadone, soporifics, even opium and hashish had their little domains.
It was very orderly and user friendly. I quickly realized that the local gangs {dealers} had a very enlightened concept of criminal commerce and were in fact rather sophisticated small businessmen. I joined the marijuana gang since I had the most in common with them, and they told the head of the cocaine gang who lived right next to me, to stop letting his pit bull leap at my kids {the dog was on a chain, but still}. Suddenly, the cocaine gang became very co-operative and even stopped tapping my phone lines to make long distance calls. Eventually, when I decided to move to the Caribbean, the gang got me a job with another one of their contacts in Old San Juan, fortunately a non- criminal activity, although the guy in San Juan turned out to be a hopeless coke addict. Well this is a very long story, above is only the synopsis.
Why I think this may not work today is that the crack and meth scenes are heavily armed and far more crazy than the scene in Hell’s Kitchen in 1977. The shooting began around 1985 and never stopped.
So that leads to this question: Why oh why did Chile move to the Criminal’s Paradise? Did he inherit a house? Believe gentrification was a few months away? What? I sell RE, so I am curious. People often make very strange decisions about home buying.
Oh, by the way, criminals are often extremely religious and even adherents of exotic spiritual pursuits like yoga and Sufism and can be vegetarians and Kung Fu practitioners of very high order. Believe me, I know all about it. I could write a book.

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By: love, schmove - just tell me how to build community with the guy who wows his lawn in his speedo! | Dismantle Civilisation http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10002 love, schmove - just tell me how to build community with the guy who wows his lawn in his speedo! | Dismantle Civilisation Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:11:16 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-10002 [...] Sharon Astyk talks about the reality of community for most. How do you get started, if you don’t know your neighbors? Well, one way is to enter into existing community structures. Your community has them - Churches, synagogues, mosques, the PTA, the library board, the garden club, the local political parties, action groups for various issues, etc…. [...] […] Sharon Astyk talks about the reality of community for most. How do you get started, if you don’t know your neighbors? Well, one way is to enter into existing community structures. Your community has them - Churches, synagogues, mosques, the PTA, the library board, the garden club, the local political parties, action groups for various issues, etc…. […]

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By: JW Cullen http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-9994 JW Cullen Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:02:31 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/09/04/love-schmove-just-tell-me-how-to-build-community-with-the-guy-who-mows-his-lawn-in-his-speedo/#comment-9994 I certainly do hope that none of this love your neighbor juvenile emotional dribble is running about my area infecting everyone. On a personality test these type are the coded with the color blue. They are enthusiastic, sympathetic, personal, warm communicative, compassionate, idealistic, spiritual, sincere, peaceful, flexible and imaginative. They want to inspire, share, help and take into consideration the human element. Look for perfect love, romantic and enjoy doing things for others. Affectionate, supportive and a good listener. They want to be happy and loving, sensitive to rejection from family conflicts. Want to be well thought of and need frequent reassurance. Love intimate talks and warm feelings. These people are not the people you want next door or in charge of making decisions for your community during times of stress. Avoid them and find the people who will decisively make a difference about your environment in protecting you from the fatherapers, vandals, pleasure killers, adults without a consciouness, and the insane who are in charge of COG, [Continuance of Government] under contditions of extreme stress. Get real. Wanna deal with reality: move to New Orleans and teach in a school there. You are way out in left field ... except for your fellow followers who have the same personality mandate described above. I certainly do hope that none of this love your neighbor juvenile emotional dribble is running about my area infecting everyone.
On a personality test these type are the coded with the color blue. They are enthusiastic, sympathetic, personal, warm communicative, compassionate, idealistic, spiritual, sincere, peaceful, flexible and imaginative.
They want to inspire, share, help and take into consideration the human element. Look for perfect love, romantic and enjoy doing things for others. Affectionate, supportive and a good listener. They want to be happy and loving, sensitive to rejection from family conflicts. Want to be well thought of and need frequent reassurance. Love intimate talks and warm feelings.
These people are not the people you want next door or in charge of making decisions for your community during times of stress.
Avoid them and find the people who will decisively make a difference about your environment in protecting you from the fatherapers, vandals, pleasure killers, adults without a consciouness, and the insane who are in charge of COG, [Continuance of Government] under contditions of extreme stress.
Get real. Wanna deal with reality: move to New Orleans and teach in a school there.
You are way out in left field … except for your fellow followers who have the same personality mandate described above.

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