Comments on: Elephants: Involuntary Simplicity http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/ Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess. Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:26:03 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Fred http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-43905 Fred Fri, 01 Jul 2011 15:34:32 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-43905 Great site thanks!! Great site thanks!!

]]> By: PianoDraft http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11381 PianoDraft Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:16:46 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11381 <strong>PianoDraft...</strong> Hello ;) Thanks heaps for this indeed!... if anyone else has anything, it would be much appreciated. Great website Super Piano Links http://www.en.Grand-Pianos.org Enjoy!... PianoDraft…

Hello ;) Thanks heaps for this indeed!… if anyone else has anything, it would be much appreciated. Great website Super Piano Links http://www.en.Grand-Pianos.org Enjoy!…

]]> By: Enginer http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11380 Enginer Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:17:12 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11380 I love your blogg. I'm in my sixties and one of my favorite books is: Living on a Few Acres" by the US Department of Agriculture, 1978 Yearbook of Agriculture. But I am a Scientist and Engineer, not a farmer. So on to the nitty-gritty. It is REALLY good that God chose this time to wake us up to our fiscal stupidity, because, as you may have heard, Global Warming is taking a break. In fact, some estimates are that 2 Billion people -extra- must die by 2030 for us to make it thru the crop failures of the decade of 2020. Here is not the time or the place to convince you of the need for everyone to learn to be more self sufficient. But we cannot accept any more major failures of governance or economics if we are to make the energy decisions and the crop migrations required to weather what some think may be another Little Ice Age. Certainly not a REAL Ice Age, but similar to the disastorous agricultural failures mentioned here: "1695-97: Great Famine of Estonia. Climate was unfavorable for crops in 1694; summer of 1695 was cold and rainy, followed by an early autumn frost that destroyed the summer crops. Cold conditions continued during 1696, and rain fell throughout the summer. Peasants, orphans and the elderly began to die en masse of starvation. Melting of snow in spring 1697 revealed many corpses. Meanwhile, rich landlords and merchants exported grain to Finland and Sweden, where crops also had failed. 70,000 to 75,000 people died during the famine in Estonia, which did not end until 1698 (Tannberg et al. 2000)." - http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec19/holocene.htm Can't happen again? Oh, give me a break! I love your blogg. I’m in my sixties and one of my favorite books is: Living on a Few Acres” by the US Department of Agriculture, 1978 Yearbook of Agriculture.

But I am a Scientist and Engineer, not a farmer. So on to the nitty-gritty.

It is REALLY good that God chose this time to wake us up to our fiscal stupidity, because, as you may have heard, Global Warming is taking a break. In fact, some estimates are that 2 Billion people -extra- must die by 2030 for us to make it thru the crop failures of the decade of 2020.

Here is not the time or the place to convince you of the need for everyone to learn to be more self sufficient. But we cannot accept any more major failures of governance or economics if we are to make the energy decisions and the crop migrations required to weather what some think may be another Little Ice Age. Certainly not a REAL Ice Age, but similar to the disastorous agricultural failures mentioned here:

“1695-97: Great Famine of Estonia. Climate was unfavorable for crops in 1694; summer of 1695 was cold and rainy, followed by an early autumn frost that destroyed the summer crops. Cold conditions continued during 1696, and rain fell throughout the summer. Peasants, orphans and the elderly began to die en masse of starvation. Melting of snow in spring 1697 revealed many corpses. Meanwhile, rich landlords and merchants exported grain to Finland and Sweden, where crops also had failed. 70,000 to 75,000 people died during the famine in Estonia, which did not end until 1698 (Tannberg et al. 2000).” -
http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec19/holocene.htm

Can’t happen again? Oh, give me a break!

]]> By: Jay http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11379 Jay Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:49:09 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11379 "All six of us"? I'm not familiar enough with Sharon's circumstances to make any accusations, but I'm hoping "six" doesn't include four children. After all, the primary reason we are in this myriad of mess is because of gross human overpopulation. Poverty, hunger, injustice, ecological decline, climate change, etc., are just the symptoms. Overpopulation is the disease. “All six of us”?

I’m not familiar enough with Sharon’s circumstances to make any accusations, but I’m hoping “six” doesn’t include four children.

After all, the primary reason we are in this myriad of mess is because of gross human overpopulation.

Poverty, hunger, injustice, ecological decline, climate change, etc., are just the symptoms. Overpopulation is the disease.

]]> By: LRH http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11378 LRH Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:14:16 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11378 Sharon, It seems to me that what you are really talking about is the attitude adjustment that involuntary austerity will require of people accustomed to the true simplicity of our current everyday convenience, and how to cope with seeing the glass dropping down to half full or less by learning to nevertheless feel empowered by the realization that there are strategies which can be employed to survive and continue to enjoy life. Like others, I see you and your family more as contrarians who had and have the luxury of choosing a different lifestyle than most others. As someone who came of age in the late 60s and early 70s when Small Is Beautiful and Diet for a Small Planet were published, I see you less as treading new ground than as reviving a way of thinking about our values and vision. The truth is that we all will have to confront situations we cannot precisely predict, but we can take small steps to empower ourselves by preparing for the broad contours of what is an inevitable decline in living standards. I have never believed that bigger is better, but I do plan to enjoy the conveniences that a working electric grid and appliances offer as long as I can, while nevertheless adding to my library books on foraging, making soaps and moisture lotions at home, and on low tech ways of doing things. I also started taking violin lessons three years ago at the age of 52, the first formal music lessons I have ever taken. I suggest that, in the long run, suggestions on how to accomplish this transition in an empowering way would be a valuable emphasis for your essay. And, yes, I do believe you have an important contribution to make the the compilation of essays. Sharon,
It seems to me that what you are really talking about is the attitude adjustment that involuntary austerity will require of people accustomed to the true simplicity of our current everyday convenience, and how to cope with seeing the glass dropping down to half full or less by learning to nevertheless feel empowered by the realization that there are strategies which can be employed to survive and continue to enjoy life. Like others, I see you and your family more as contrarians who had and have the luxury of choosing a different lifestyle than most others. As someone who came of age in the late 60s and early 70s when Small Is Beautiful and Diet for a Small Planet were published, I see you less as treading new ground than as reviving a way of thinking about our values and vision. The truth is that we all will have to confront situations we cannot precisely predict, but we can take small steps to empower ourselves by preparing for the broad contours of what is an inevitable decline in living standards. I have never believed that bigger is better, but I do plan to enjoy the conveniences that a working electric grid and appliances offer as long as I can, while nevertheless adding to my library books on foraging, making soaps and moisture lotions at home, and on low tech ways of doing things. I also started taking violin lessons three years ago at the age of 52, the first formal music lessons I have ever taken. I suggest that, in the long run, suggestions on how to accomplish this transition in an empowering way would be a valuable emphasis for your essay. And, yes, I do believe you have an important contribution to make the the compilation of essays.

]]> By: Jyotsna http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11377 Jyotsna Sat, 06 Dec 2008 12:56:50 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11377 Where is the "edit" button? : ) Jyotsna Where is the “edit” button?
: )
Jyotsna

]]> By: Jyotsna http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-2/#comment-11376 Jyotsna Sat, 06 Dec 2008 12:54:40 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11376 Lisa, "with the example of the temperatures at our house (we are trying to just heat with the new woodstove): there’s a range of temperatures where I’m chilly but okay with my sweaters and hat. But as it gets colder, and as I am cold for a longer time, it gets into a different place, an “I’m suffering” sort of experience. " What a very excellent discription. We are also practicing for harder times, and as much as I want to keep the heat at or below 65 degrees (I'm a wimp apparently), there are times when I just need to be warmer. I'm in my fourties, and I have learned that my internal thermostat is not the same as it used to be. I'm working on making improvements on my house, and building up my supply of thrift store sweaters, so I can use less heat, and still maintain it at 65 degrees. That is what I can do to cope. And then if I have to keep it at 58 in the future, or colder, because I have no choice, I do know I will get used to it eventually. Right now I'm on a practice run. But in the future, it is possible that all of these things I am practicing will become necessary, and then the guilt will only be in telling my children that we are keeping their doors of their rooms shut off, to keep the house warm, and that we will now have to sleep in our living room instead of our own seperate beds. We all will have to make adjustments when the time comes. Better to practice and imagine how we will cope now, than wait and be surprised. Lisa,

“with the example of the temperatures at our house (we are trying to just heat with the new woodstove): there’s a range of temperatures where I’m chilly but okay with my sweaters and hat. But as it gets colder, and as I am cold for a longer time, it gets into a different place, an “I’m suffering” sort of experience. ”

What a very excellent discription. We are also practicing for harder times, and as much as I want to keep the heat at or below 65 degrees (I’m a wimp apparently), there are times when I just need to be warmer. I’m in my fourties, and I have learned that my internal thermostat is not the same as it used to be. I’m working on making improvements on my house, and building up my supply of thrift store sweaters, so I can use less heat, and still maintain it at 65 degrees. That is what I can do to cope. And then if I have to keep it at 58 in the future, or colder, because I have no choice, I do know I will get used to it eventually. Right now I’m on a practice run. But in the future, it is possible that all of these things I am practicing will become necessary, and then the guilt will only be in telling my children that we are keeping their doors of their rooms shut off, to keep the house warm, and that we will now have to sleep in our living room instead of our own seperate beds.

We all will have to make adjustments when the time comes. Better to practice and imagine how we will cope now, than wait and be surprised.

]]> By: Lisa in Oregon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-1/#comment-11375 Lisa in Oregon Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:21:12 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11375 Before I moved to a farm(let) in the country(ish), I was single and lived in the city, and I was studying VS and it made a lot of sense to me. However, now with growing food and raising animals and what-not, it's kind of a different ball of wax - the whole going out / shopping / impressing people / entertainment thing are not places I'm in danger of spending too much time or money :-) While I think the fundamental philosophical positions are similar, there's just no way "Simple" applies to what we are doing. I didn't like or finish your money or your life (seemed all about saving your money and retiring at 40 on the interest), but Janet Luhrs Simple Living Guide (and another one about Simple Loving) were great; mindful living. Perhaps I still do that now. Also, the Northwest Earth Institute has some great material. We are also practicing for hard times, and it's difficult to be uncomfortable when you don't need to be. But here's how I think of it now, with the example of the temperatures at our house (we are trying to just heat with the new woodstove): there's a range of temperatures where I'm chilly but okay with my sweaters and hat. But as it gets colder, and as I am cold for a longer time, it gets into a different place, an "I'm suffering" sort of experience. I feel like kind of a failure for giving in and building another fire, but perhaps even the little while I stay in the "I'm suffering" place, I think, takes away some of the fear and might make it easier in the future. Or am I kidding myself? Lisa in Oregon Before I moved to a farm(let) in the country(ish), I was single and lived in the city, and I was studying VS and it made a lot of sense to me. However, now with growing food and raising animals and what-not, it’s kind of a different ball of wax – the whole going out / shopping / impressing people / entertainment thing are not places I’m in danger of spending too much time or money :-) While I think the fundamental philosophical positions are similar, there’s just no way “Simple” applies to what we are doing.

I didn’t like or finish your money or your life (seemed all about saving your money and retiring at 40 on the interest), but Janet Luhrs Simple Living Guide (and another one about Simple Loving) were great; mindful living. Perhaps I still do that now. Also, the Northwest Earth Institute has some great material.

We are also practicing for hard times, and it’s difficult to be
uncomfortable when you don’t need to be. But here’s how I think of it now, with the example of the temperatures at our house (we are trying to just heat with the new woodstove): there’s a range of temperatures where I’m chilly but okay with my sweaters and hat. But as it gets colder, and as I am cold for a longer time, it gets into a different place, an “I’m suffering” sort of experience. I feel like kind of a failure for giving in and building another fire, but perhaps even the little while I stay in the “I’m suffering” place, I think, takes away some of the fear and might make it easier in the future. Or am I kidding myself?

Lisa in Oregon

]]> By: Lynnet http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-1/#comment-11374 Lynnet Fri, 05 Dec 2008 18:19:27 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11374 Sharon, I certainly liked parts of your post, but as some others have said, your ambivalence about VS shows through in the article and makes it head off in several different directions at once. Perhaps you could just get up front with what you see as the failings of VS and what might have to change to make it relevant in the future, as V becomes I for many of us. This is a very useful and even essential topic, which will make the book stronger even for VS advocates. I don't agree with thos who say to ditch the article; you have a "bully pulpit" here which is an opportunity too good to miss. Sharon, I certainly liked parts of your post, but as some others have said, your ambivalence about VS shows through in the article and makes it head off in several different directions at once.

Perhaps you could just get up front with what you see as the failings of VS and what might have to change to make it relevant in the future, as V becomes I for many of us. This is a very useful and even essential topic, which will make the book stronger even for VS advocates.

I don’t agree with thos who say to ditch the article; you have a “bully pulpit” here which is an opportunity too good to miss.

]]> By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/comment-page-1/#comment-11373 Sharon Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:10:22 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2008/12/04/elephants-involuntary-simplicity/#comment-11373 Kate, I didn't say I agreed with Deanna ;-). But I did find it useful in pointing out what I may not have made clear. Sharon Kate, I didn’t say I agreed with Deanna ;-) . But I did find it useful in pointing out what I may not have made clear.

Sharon

]]>