Universal Food Stamps? If the Industrial Food System No Longer Provides Cheap Food, What Are We Keeping It For, Anyway?
Sharon January 3rd, 2009
I think the above is an important story, one that demonstrates an increasing shift in our society’s relationship to its food. Vermont’s policy change on food stamps is likely to be mirrored by other states, and this represents both a fundamental shift in the reality of American need, and also, I think, the final stake in the heart of the industrial food system.
http://www.timesargus.com/article/20090103/NEWS02/901030330/0/SPORTS
“The well-known Food Stamp program got a new updated name Friday, and Vermont Gov. James Douglas was on hand for the launch, standing in front of three tables of food at Shaw’s Supermarket Friday afternoon. The state’s expanded nutrition program was symbolized by the display of foods for breakfast, lunch and dinner, underscoring the new name and “3Squares” focus on healthy eating.Enrollment in the program currently stands at 31,000, or more than 12 percent, of Vermont’s approximately 250,000 households. Those households represent more than 61,000 individuals in the state. The program has expanded by about 57 percent since 2001, when it served 39,000 individuals, said Steve Dale, the commissioner of the Department for Children and Families.Douglas said he anticipates that “tens of thousands of additional Vermont families will be eligible” for 3Squares VT. “What better time to make that important change than now, when so many Vermonters are struggling to pay their bills in these challenging economic times,” he said.
During the summer, anti-hunger advocates and members of the Vermont Food and Fuel Partnership looked for the most effective way to confront an expected winter crisis caused by spiking fuel bills that could force Vermonters to cut back on food. The consensus was to raise the eligibility ceiling for the supplemental nutrition assistance program and eliminate the asset test, which Douglas called “a burden to participation.” Those changes, agreed to last summer, went into effect Jan. 1.
Now people with gross incomes of 185 percent of the federal poverty level, up from 130 percent, are eligible for the program. That’s $3,269 a month for a family of four. And people will no longer have to spend down their savings for their children’s college education or their retirement to qualify.
“That’s still lower income, but when you take away the onus of being the poorest of the poor, people realize, ‘This is for me!’” said Renée Richardson, the director of the program.”
I have to say, it was a bit of a shock to realize that if we lived in Vermont, my family would qualify for food stamps. But, of course, that goes along with what has been a massive national shift – away from food stamps as a method of helping the most vulnerable and towards food stamps as a food subsidy that essentially makes food affordable for many people. In the last few years we’ve seen food stamp enrollment (and let’s be honest, they’ve changed the name before, they will still be calling it food stamps, no matter what marketing VT does) move up to 1 in 9 Americans, and 1 in 6 people in Michigan and Washington DC. That is, they effectively now operate as a subsidy for a substantial, and rapidly increasing portion of the US. Given the scale of the expected economic crisis in 2009 and 2010, it would not be surprising to see those numbers hit 1 in 5 Americans.
Now I want to be clear – I am in favor of food stamps and any strategy that helps keep people from going hungry, and that ensures adequate nutrition. I’m also strongly in favor of any new program that reduces or even attempts to reduce the stigma of accepting aid when it is needed. That said, however, the question needs to be asked – are food stamps the best possible way to address the issues of food security and access that we’ve created in our society?
First of all, let’s talk about what’s driving the vast increase in food stamp enrollment in the US. The first factor is state enthusiasm – that is, there has been a laudable push to bring more hungry people into the food stamp program. There has also been a push by the states to expand their food stamp enrollment because food stamps are federally funded, and effectively transfer federal dollars into the state – that is, the food that food stamp recipients purchase in Vermont gets spent in Vermont.
Food stamps are an extremely effective way of subsidizing state economies, because virtually every dollar gets spent directly – that is, unlike, say, tax returns that often get saved or put into markets that benefit others, low income families don’t have a lot of reserve, so the money they get circulates around – it gets spent and used in the economy, upping the velocity of money. In this sense, food stamps are a much better investment than, say, bank bailouts – money given to Citibank, for example, goes into the bank’s coffers to offset its existing debts, and is mostly never seen again. Food stamps given to low income families get spent at the supermarket or the farmer’s market and get money circulating in the community. In a comparatively poor state like Vermont, this is absolutely urgent.
But, of course, there’s another, not so helpful reason why food stamp enrollments are rising – people are struggling. 2007 saw vast rises in the price of basic foods, and while some foods have declined in cost somewhat – milk for example – agricultural prices are always based in large part on the last season’s production, and so consumers can expect to pay high prices for a long time.
Moreover, as more and more industrial food producers are forced to stop absorbing higher commodity prices, and make up for shifts in their bottom lines that occurred last year, prices are likely to remain high while companies attempt to remain in business. With one major industrial producer, Pilgrim Foods, already in bankruptcy, we can expect to see some measure of consolidation in the system – leading, probably to higher prices overall. Combine that with dramatic month over month job losses and pay cuts, and the prospects are overwhelmingly for more and more people to struggle to put food on the table. Indeed, food pantries and food stamp application handlers are all reporting more and more people who never thought they would be in there present situation needing help.
I think it is important that those of us who think about food begin thinking about food stamps not as an emergency support program, but as a normative food subsidy for Americans – the move to include middle class citizens in food stamp programs is likely to grow, and the fact that the middle class now needs food stamps to get by is not just a bad sign for the temporary economy, but a serious structural shift in our food system. The exapansion of food stamps is already having a substantial impact on the food system as a whole – remember, states are being flooded with dollars that can *only* be spent on food – this means that the food marketplace is being shifted as a whole, for as spending drops, we are shifting dollars in a particular direction. Again, I have no difficulty with this to the extent it mitigates hunger – but we do need ask who these subsidies are actually supporting. If we are going to make a massive federal investment in the food system, we should be subsidizing investments that improve local food security, support goals of cutting global warming gasses and reduce the externalization of a range of problems from health costs to ecological damage onto the shoulders of already burdened taxpayers.
In this sense food stamps are not an unmitigated good. At this point, food stamps disproportionally benefit the industrial food economy - many farmer’s markets and CSA programs cannot or are not set up to accept food stamps, and low income families often struggle to get transport to farmer’s markets and farmstands that do accept them. CSAs usually require upfront payments that food stamp recipients cannot make – and while many CSA owners attempt to accomodate low income shares, their personal profit margins are sufficiently low that this doesn’t always work.
Not only does this prioritization of the industrial do considerable ecological harm, and also reduce the access of lower income families to healthy foods, but it works against the interests of the states, which lose most of the dollars spent their as they go back to industrial producers. A rational system would be something like Michael Pollan’s proposition that food stamp values are doubled when spent directly at farmer’s markets or through CSA payment programs. So to would using some federal subsidy and education money to teach people – children and adults – how to cook and eat seasonally, so that they could get the most from their food stamp dollars, buying high quality, whole foods.
But more importantly, the rise in food stamp use should make us look seriously at our industrial food system, and our food system in relationship to the world at large. For a long time, the one thing that you could say about American industrial food was that it was cheap. But if food is no longer inexpensive, not just for the poor, but for the American middle class, then the single virtue of the industrial food system begins to collapse. That is, even with a system of externalized costs, one that defers paying the full price of pollution, industrial food is no longer affordable. So why were we keeping the industrial food system around again? Certainly not because there are no better choices – if we are going to subsidize expensive food, why not good, nutritious food that will lower national health costs, enrich small farmers and improve overall food security?
If we are to accept that something as basic as food has now moved out of the realm of ordinary affordability, this should make clear to us precisely how vulnerable we are to hunger even in the US. The fact that we have acknowledged a need for a subsidy that extends well into the middle class (and it actually extends further than implied, because food stamps automatically make you eligible for things like subsidized school lunches) means that the industrial food system no longer is managing to do the one thing that you could say in its defense – provide affordable food. And if this is no longer the case, there really is no defense left for industrial agriculture.
Sharon
You CAN use FS to purchase garden seeds. And even fruit trees. If you can find a seller who takes them. Meijers here in Michigan does, and I have a friend with three lovely blueberry bushes courtesy of his FS card. It can be worth it depending on how much you’re getting.
Finally got over here to see what’s going on. Nice job Sharon and all of you. Reading a bunch of back posts and comments all day and feel right at home.
The food stamp thing is something I’m actually thinking about. I think is was Laura above who suggested using it to increase storage. Heck if Goldman Sachs can get bailed out and AIG, it’s almost kind of dumb on my part not to take a few extra dollars and get myself better set. Always more to do and there are some things I like I can’t produce. Doesn’t seem to be any stigma for the giant banks to take handouts. I live very low on the food chain, and very low impact, which means I’ve probably been eligible for years.
That said, I’m a product of the 80′s recession and the “back to the land” movement. Helen and Scott lived just down the street. Elliot Coleman is a neighbor.Been heating with wood for the last 25 years. Live in a small solar saltbox I built myself, no mortgage. Raised beds, you all know the drill. Chickens and pigs. Pig rodeos are so much fun. One of my kids fondest memories.
Getting on to geezer hood now, and don’t quite have the energy I used to have. Putting by the 4 chords of wood we need each winter is getting harder and taking more time. Everything seems to.
Anyway, Sharon, you go girl, and I’ll be here more often now.
Don in Maine
If you consider that Food Stamps, or whatever name they go by in your area this week, are another direct government subsidy to the Industrial Food Complex, all of this makes sense, and the fact that more families may now qualify for assistance – and why the govenrment is allocating more funds to this program – should also come as no surprise. Looks like the Food Industry, like the banks and car companies, are gonna get their bailout, too.
Please, can we stop blaming the “victims” here? You know how it is: as long as they can keep us fighting between ourselves over non-issues, we won’t be fighting the system over what really counts!
Best wishes to all,
Mo Ro
(Rosalie in Missouri)
A couple of quick facts about Maine food stamps. 1 in 8 people get them. Occupying Iraq for one day costs the same as 2 years of food stamps for Maine.
Just food for thought, Chuckle.
Don in Maine
What a couple have mentioned about the need to tighten up what FS can be used on is a definite neccesity. As a property manager of low income housing I can tell you that there is a lot of abuse of the system … intentional and unintentional. There are some people who need the help of FS and some people who take it simply because they can.
What is needed beyond cooking skills, etc. is actual budgeting skills. The public assistance isn’t a massive amount of money, but it could be spent better. So could their regular paychecks. Especially where there is children involved.
I’m not casting the first stone. I’m not perfect, nor do I believe myself better than those receiving public assistance. I pay my taxes willingly so that those that deservedly need the help as a bridge get that help.
However, I’m concerned that without any real boundaries in the program that it develops dependency rather than self-sufficiency. We’ve already watched generations of families get caught up in that cycle, we don’t need to add more. There has to be some kind of middle ground, even during tough times. Some “catch” to prevent this unintentional side effect of the “help” being offered via the taxes paid by others.
I’ve spent most the night, sleepless, pondering some of the larger questions raised by this discussion, mostly about how to we respond to things that we see as wrong.
I have to say, first and foremost, that much of what I’ve done goes under the wrong (or at least not right) heading. I chose to have my children in one of the most emission producing ways possible, and knowing that, I’d never give them up. I have a housemate, but that is more of a blessing to me than any sort of burden, even if it help lower emissions, I’d do it anyway. (I think I’d even do it if raised emissions.) I may use a little less hot water than most, but with all my efforts, I’m not the poster child for “not contributing to the mess that we are in.” With me, it’s often a case of do as I say, not what I do.
At the same time, I really can’t blame others for making the same choices that I have. How can I say, you shouldn’t have a car, when I drive one? I can say don’t idle the engine (which I have to say I am careful about), but all the not engine idleing in the world isn’t going to fix things.
For a long time, I’ve tried to teach myself that what others do is there problem. I can control what I, I can control how I respond to them, but I can’t control them. (Heck I can’t even control myself much of the time.) When, for example a friend’s child died of cancer, and the set up a foundation to cure that particular sort of cancer, I said nothing becuase I knew they were feeling a grief I couldn’t even imagine, and that this must give giving them a little solace. But Ialso knew that these small familiy foundations that raise a few thousand dollars are pretty much useless becuase they don’t have enough money to fund any sort of research. Perhaps this family didn’t know that. Perhaps if I mentioned it, they would have said, “oh, then we’d much rather the money went to a larger foundation, or to help the child life team at the hospital where he was treated, or who know what else.” Did I do right to stand by, respecting, as I thought, their grief, or I did I add to their burden by not telling them something they would have wanted to know, and when they found out later, they regreated not knowing?
It’s not that I don’t preach to people about PO, and try to lead by example (mostly of the how not do, as in this is how not to empty your water barrells). I think I may have put more people off PO by talking about it than opened people up to the idea. But I try to refrain from pointing out what I think they are doing wrong. There are some areas which really are wrong when it comes to conservation. There may be factors why someone is taking a long shower on the first day of the month and resaons why it’s not taking (over the course of the month) any more water than usual. But I don’t see any justification for turning on the shower and then not turning it off if you get out to answer the phone (assumng, of couse that it’s not a hardship to turn on and off your taps).
Maybe I’ve gone to far to saying, hey, you must have reason for letting the water run 20 mins while you are on the phone. Maybe I could say, shall I turn the water off for you.
I really, really don’t know how I should feel about people (myself included) who have gotten us into this mess. Anger, sorrow, compassion? Do I say, well, you can have bread, but no butter, we’re saving that for the people who had the sense to get goats? Do I say, well, you drove a SUV, but your children had no choice but to ride in it, so they get butter, but you don’t? Do I say, heck, as long as there are goats, (can one make butter from goats milk, does it have enought fat?) everyone gets a fair share of butter?
For a long, long time (since the start of humanity, perhaps) the general thought, and reality, has been if you can afford it, you can have it. Sumptary laws have never worked (though rationing has). Lots and lots of people who didn’t “deserve”things have had them, and other people who have had must as much right to the basics, haven’t have even those.
If we start punishing those who got us into this mess, I’m one of the first again the wall, as I certainly contributed. I don’t know who else would be there, but I know there would be others. (I may have a fat, relentless ego, but I didn’t singlehandlely great GCC, PO and the financial melt down.) Some of them would excuses. Some of those excuses would exhonorate them in the eyes of some, and not of others.
So, how are we suppose to feel about other people and their actions? Do we have a right to hold them responsible? A duty? Do we try to fix the mess without engagine others who created it?
I really would appreciate comments, and answer.
It annoys me off that my tax dollars goes towards subsidizing Big Agriculture making the less healthy food cheaper. How’s that for democracy?
I finally got around to checking out my retirement funds and discovered two of my mutual funds includes Monsanto as one their top 10 holdings. I will be liquidating them over the next few months. Yes, I know I am very behind in doing this.
When I was unemployed, I volunteered fot a summer at a food pantry for HIV positive clients. I would be shocked to go into the warehouse and find boxes of fresh produce just sitting there rotting away. When I asked why they weren’t put out, I was told “The clients don’t like that kind of food.” This upset me terribly, to see food wasted like this. The sanitary conditions were also upsetting to me (same sponge used in the clients bathroom thrown back in the kitchen sink to clean the dishware).
Jen has a right to her thoughts and feelings and to express them. We all do. We can each say what we think and feel without putting anyone else down. Just because someone thinks differently than I do, doesn’t mean that one of us is right and the other wrong. We just see things differently. I think its important that we feel safe in expressing ourselves because its the only way we will hear and learn from everyone.
I know our society values beauty and youth. Before my last job interview in Nov 2007, I dyed my hair so I wouldn’t look old. I got the job and I haven’t dyed my hair since. I’ve been doing a lot of work on loving myself just as I am, and that includes my grey hair. It used to be that old folks were respected because they survived long enough to get grey hair!
May we all have the clarity to see beauty everywhere in all its forms.
Mea,
I have pondered the same question and have read some helpful perspectives in various spiritual books.
Everything you see in your outer world is a reflection of whats going on inside your mind. As you let go of fears and judgments, the world becomes a friendlier place.
Some Toltecs say you need to reach a place of “no pity” so you can amass enough energy to act freely and clearly.
Some Buddhist say that as long as you have food in your stomach, a roof over your head, and can sleep at night, you should do what you can to help others.
Some who have reached a fairly enlightened state, literally do see everything thats going on, all the suffering etc, as being perfect. As more and more become enlightened, because we are truly only one, eventually everyone will recognize that we are one and act accordingly.
I personally feel that we are each on our own path, some are meant to be “politicians”, some are meant to be activists, some are meant to live quiet lives so they have the time and energy to practice being present.
I have learned that I must not compare myself to anyone and find myself better or less than another. Only you can know whats right for you. And the way to do it is by getting quiet enough to hear the quiet voice beneath the chattering mind.
What choices lead to greater peace? After one gains clarity, it is easier to get in touch with how you can best contribute your energy.
But worry is a waste of energy and does terrible things to your body. Please be kind to yourself and try not to feel guilty about doing too little/too much.
For me, right now, I am working on loving myself and finding the more I love myself, the freer I am to extend myself out into the world. Hopes this helps some.
If I haven’t missed the main thread of what Sharon finds to be important and what she preaches endlessly about on this blog, is FOOD SECURITY. I don’t think anyone wants to punish anyone by letting them starve. I think the effort needs to be focused on destroying the system we have currently and rebuilding it in a sustainable way. Food Stamps are NOT sustainable neither is big agriculture. Whoever said women are going to have to take the lead on this were right. We have to find spaces in our community to teach, grow, and produce. Food is not a right. One used to have to catch, preserve, grow, their own. And what you had is what you had. There were no food stamps and if you were poor you LOOKED poor.
This thread was an interesting read. A few comments as a teacher of argument and rhetoric:
–When we call other people “judgmental” we are making a judgment! There is, unfortunately, no neutral position, no completely objective place to stand. What we are really saying when we call someone else “judgmental” is that we don’t agree with their value assessment (but this requires a judgment). This is a fairly common logical fallacy.
–Someone like Thoreau might be tickled with this debate. We are so invested in our “creature comforts.” We look for ways to justify this or that expenditure even as we know we should be saving the money, paying the mortgage, or doing whatever it is we should be doing. My impression of what Astyk is saying (and she’s not the only one out there making this point) is that we need to rethink how we live our lives, especially given how our economic situation is changing. This is something we all should do, no doubt. As de Tocqueville said, we as Americans are “restless amidst abundance.” We need to figure out why that is and how to change it. One of the ways to do this is with productive dialogue!
–The issue raised here by Jen concerning food stamps is important. Whereas some wanted to make this an issue of class, I think this is “missing the forest for the trees.” Whether one thinks it’s important or not to look a certain way at the grocery store, or whether one is being ethical in using food stamps and then spending money to have their hair colored a certain color or buy a pair of designer jeans, it seems Jen’s point is that we need to think about how we live our lives, how we spend our time and money, and whether we are being efficient and frugal about it. We ALL have felt this way when we feel like someone has been given free money and they aren’t spending it wisely (name your bailout). The issue is not about how “poor” people should look. It’s about how we should “marshal our resources.”
Jen
Your girlfriend you “talked” into going to grad school, my. Is it possible that after she finished her higher education she still could not find employment?
I have a bachelors, experience and am 48 years old. 3 years ago my job closed I took a penance of severance, and looked for a job. The last and maybe the third interiew I had (in 3 years) was for a job working with adjunct teens. 800 people applied for this one position that paid 8.00 an hour but offered benefits after 3 months. I did not get the job even though i have the education, experience, references and a genuine love for this kind of “work.” My husband lost lost his airline job a year ago, he was a captain on a 767. He got his hernia fixed (bill is on the way, we have two college age kids, could never dish out 800.00 for cobra bought short term emergency insurance insead.) Now that his hernia is fixed we wait and hope for a job driving truck, things are very very slow in MI. My dear, advanced education is no longer a sure win for employment any type of employment from blue collar to white. We will do both but have not had the opportunity.
We received food stamps and medicaid after one of my friends kept urging me. Thank God. I was hungry, I think we all were. Let’s talk about stereotypes I see poorly dressed young couples with a couple of children using food stamps. I have yet to see a woman as you describe unless it was me, which it was not because I would not shop there. I can look pretty good (don’t look too close though eyes are tired from worry face is taught) but the black coat black turtleneck ( all purchased at Goodwill) and black heels from K-mart (they are three years old probably should check k-mart for a sale.) I can turn some heads. My friend does my hair (friendship and love is good) I use that cheap makeup at walmart probably lasts a year, costing 16.00 total. Please hold the judgement. Furthermore, there is a nasty little observation concerning f.s users and obesity. Cut me a break use your head. When one has NO money food BECOMES a focal point in one’s life. Eating becomes a hobby. In fairness there are a lot of other things wonderful things to do w/o money but food does take on a new meaning when one no longer has any cash to go to the movies, out to eat, buy a new can of paint to spruce up some old possession etc.. In addition, if I have gained weight ha, I am sure I have, my straight leg size 27 levis purchased at, yes, Goodwill are getting tight it is because one I wear insulated underwear at all times (heat goes no higher than 60) and two, I was soooooooooo hungry but didn’t know it. Moms have a way of watching before they eat, only if there is some left do they indulge, NOW with food stamps I can eat and I LOVE it!! We have meatloaf, mashed potatoes, corn and we splurge on dinner rolls (should see my daughter’s face when there are dinner rolls,) At night when all is quiet and i am spending quiet time with god, I have my fav, olive loaf cheese mayo with coke zero (bought in liters when on sale.) We put lots of money into the taxation system of the U.S, because hubby worked hard to become an airline pilot. I am using a little of it now and I feel no guilt only gratitude. Please excuse errors my dollar cheaters are hiding.
LISA:
“Your girlfriend you “talked” into going to grad school, my. Is it possible that after she finished her higher education she still could not find employment?”
No. She had worked for a newspaper for over a decade, but during a personal crisis I convinced her to go back to school so she could get a job doing something else. She was IN grad school with a stipend when she got food stamps with no debt. She could have worked, but she had never in the 13 yrs I’d known her worked FT, BY CHOICE. She was not ashamed of it either, she had never paid for her own car, it was always given to her. She was in her mid 30′s at the time. Really, this person had NO excuse. She was healthy and able and this was before the current economic crisis we are in. I brought her up ONLY as an example of how the system is abused. I’m sorry I’ve hit such a chord here. My point was made several posts ago so I’m only answering the question Lisa posed.
Mea and others who mentioned the same concerns,
I too have struggled with whether and how to talk to people about peak oil and food security and general preparedness. The reaction I’ve gotten has more often been a shrug and a smile (if it was even that polite) than interest. So I’m less likely to stick my neck out any more, except on my own blog.
But one thing I learned after a couple of years was that even if people don’t appear to be listening, what you say does sometimes creep in there. In the last few months, several people have come up to me and said, “You were right, we need to stockpile food and learn some of the old skills.” I’ll be teaching a whole young family to knit this coming weekend, partly as a result of something I said to the father months ago.
When my kids were teens, they accused me of being a packrat. Recently one of my daughters told me that she understands now why I saved anything I thought might be valuable later, and she’s beginning to do it too. Even one’s children listen, whether they appear to be doing so or not.
So even if it doesn’t appear to be doing any good, talking to people does work. They hear the media go on about prices and shortages and job losses and all the rest, and the natural reaction is fear. A few of them will remember that someone offered a way to deal with it, and they’ll come back to you to find out more, or will at least start looking for answers. That’s one more person or family who may become part of the solution, rather than part of the problem.
Jen, for what it’s worth, I tend to side with you in this debate. Dressing up the way that girl did is done, not in order to simply look ‘good’ (which is entirely possible to do without looking like you spent a massive amount of money on it), but in order to convey the image of a higher socio-economic status. If you’re wearing designer clothes, you’re effectively saying ‘I’ve got money’ (even if that’s not true; even if the clothes came from a second-hand store). And if you’re going to stand in front of me, effectively telling me ‘I’ve got plenty more money than you do’ (by wearing designer clothes) and ‘I’m spending your tax dollars’ (by using food stamps), then yes, I do have a problem with that.
And BTW, I’m not at all suggesting that people should wear ‘rags’ or be dirty. I ALWAYS look clean, and I NEVER look like I spent a ton of money on my clothes. There is a lot of middle ground here, and setting up the debate in ‘designer clothes’ vs. ‘rags’ terms is plain dishonest.
I have been outside splitting wood and thinking about it all. Decided to go all the way back to
Sharon’s words. Last paragraph
“…this should make clear to us precisely how vulnerable we are to hunger even in the US.”
and what comes to my mind is really, how
serious this issue of food is, on a very PRIMAL
level. As in even How we obtain food, How we
pay for food, Who should or shouldn’t eat certain foods, Who should decide these things, and on and on. The intense subjective nature of our comments is very revealing.
grace
NMex
So should a person who purchased nice clothes when they could afford it be forced to give up those clothes because they’re now on food stamps?
“So should a person who purchased nice clothes when they could afford it be forced to give up those clothes because they’re now on food stamps?”
First of all, it’s not about ‘nice’ clothes, it’s about designer clothes.
Second, the point I’m making is this: when a person is conspicuously using my tax dollars (by e.g. paying with food stamps), s/he should refrain from engaging in conspicuous displays of wealth.
“Second, the point I’m making is this: when a person is conspicuously using my tax dollars (by e.g. paying with food stamps), s/he should refrain from engaging in conspicuous displays of wealth.”
How wonderfully self-righteous! Give yourself a pat on the back!!
Does it matter that I have been a public servant teaching public school for years and that my husband has paid taxes for twenty years before he was laid off? And your comment would be well put upon our polticians on both sides of the aisle—they quite readily live and show grotesque signs of affluence and wealth while they spend our tax dollars. Didn’t they just give themselves a pay increase while we’re in a recession? I think they did!
And pray tell, how do you define conspicuous displays of wealth? Maybe we need a law that says that people who are using government assitance of any form or fashion need to wear a red arm band or something of the like, so we can be easily pointed out? Hmm. Sounds familiar.
I know we all judge. It is just astounding to me how blatant it can be at times towards people of lesser means than yourself.
TheNormalMiddle,
Brining up politicians is a strawman. This wasn’t about politicians and the myriad abuses that they engage in, but about food stamps. If we had been talking about politicians, then I would’ve posted (or not) about politicians.
Next, I have never, ever in my entire life had clothes of the kind that Jen described. I could not POSSIBLY afford to buy them new, and I see no reason to buy flashy clothes used (though I do buy used clothes; just not flashy). Frankly, I wouldn’t wear them if I could: I do not appreciate conspicuous displays of wealth by ANYONE (including people who are or were public servants for years, since you brought that up), but when the people engaging in such behavior are also receiving my tax dollars, then that adds insult to injury.
Look, I don’t have much, but I have enough. I spend half my income on rent (I have a small bedroom, and I share my apartment with two people), and maybe a quarter on food. I have no problem whatsoever subsidizing people so that they could afford the SAME standard of living that I’ve got (i.e. nutritious food, safe housing, appropriate clothes for the climate). I DO have a problem with subsidizing a HIGHER standard of living (or for that matter, the appearance thereof) than I’ve got, without getting something in return. If you want to call me self-righteous for that, then be my guest.
Oh, that’s right. Us po’ people should look the part. Should I give up my college degree somehow as well? Should I blacken a couple of my teeth so I look the part and people are more comfortable?
Or is it that some people are scared to death that, there by the grace of whatever you believe in, there go you. Because it could, and does happen, to any one of us at any given moment due to health, poor decisions (i.e., wrong degree, wrong choice of mate, wrong geographic move, wrong career choice), etc. And pointing the finger and villifying those who don’t “look the part” feels a lot easier than to actually and logically assess the fact that bad luck may just come a’knocking at your door.
It’s much easier to villify your neighbor than the Wall Street ponzi schemists and the politicians. More vitriol is reserved for the welfare people who don’t goosestep to certain mercurial stereotypes than the government who is stealing us blind!
“Brining up politicians is a strawman. This wasn’t about politicians and the myriad abuses that they engage in, but about food stamps. If we had been talking about politicians, then I would’ve posted (or not) about politicians.”
Who, pray tell, set up the food stamp program if it wasn’t politicians/gov’t?
“I DO have a problem with subsidizing a HIGHER standard of living (or for that matter, the appearance thereof) than I’ve got, without getting something in return. If you want to call me self-righteous for that, then be my guest.”
You don’t include Congress, Wall Street, the Fed, IRS, and the like, in that?
Wait, wait, wait. When did I say that people should have black teeth? What on earth are you talking about?
“You don’t include Congress, Wall Street, the Fed, IRS, and the like, in that?”
Of course they are included. It’s just that this wasn’t about them.
Maybe we need a law that says that people who are using government assitance of any form or fashion need to wear a red arm band or something of the like, so we can be easily pointed out? Hmm. Sounds familiar.
Can we please refrain from pulling out the Hitler/Nazi card when faced with something we find objectionable? The combox disagreements have been refreshingly civil, I hope they stay that way.
Hi TheNormalMiddle:
“Conspicuous consumption” was coined by an economist named Thornstein Veblen in 1902: http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/1902veblen00.html
In short, “conspicuous” consumption is any kind of purchasing that is concerned more with conveying a certain status to the public. The middle class is especially guilty of this since it is only the trappings of wealth they can obtain, and not “real” wealth in itself. As far as I’m aware, anybody can be guilty of this including teachers, preachers, tax payers, and the like, perhaps especially folks like this!
Identifying consumption as being conspicuous is the exact opposite of being self-righteous, rather, it is an attempt to critique our obsession with those kinds of goods that we buy which are bought to convey status, something we all do.
“Wait, wait, wait. When did I say that people should have black teeth? What on earth are you talking about?”
I’m talking about your view of how a welfare recipient should look like. If the clothes aren’t “right,” then it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the appearance is picked apart, since the person is being judge on how s/he looks.
“I’m talking about your view of how a welfare recipient should look like. If the clothes aren’t “right,” then it’s only a matter of time before the rest of the appearance is picked apart, since the person is being judge on how s/he looks.”
You’re trying to turn this into a designer clothes vs. rags debate. As I said before, there is a LOT of middle ground (I happen to live in it myself), and denying it is plain dishonest.
Also, what John said.
Gadzooks. The discussion kinda ran away from the issue, didn’t it? I don’t really care how people look when they buy with FS. Not enough knowledge to know the situation. If the system gives it to them, ok. I think we would all agree here that some foods ought to be cut out. There are good quality deserts, and there is crap. There are good quality snacks and there is crap. Why not direct FS to better quality foods?
But what really bothers me about this discussion, and also about Sharon’s otherwise excellent post is… are we so bankrupt idea-wise that subsidies are the only way we can think of to solve the food issue?! Subsidies for Wall Street, subsidies for the poor, subsidies for the middle class. Is this any way to run a viable economy?!
How about veering off in the direction of fixing the broke food system? It ain’t gonna be fixed via more FSs. What would Sharon do if she ran Vermont? What would YOU do? And I mean stuff that deals with the underlying problems, not just another “let’s throw taxpayer money at it” nonfix.
“If the Industrial Food System No Longer Provides Cheap Food, What Are We Keeping It For, Anyway?”
I see 2 questions hiding in that line. 1) How do we get rid of the industrial food system that no longer does what it did well, and continues to do all those things it does badly? 2) What would another, better system look like, and how do we get about getting it? How do we secure cheap, nutritious food for all? Is it even doable?
“How do we secure cheap, nutritious food for all?”
I don’t see why it has to be ‘cheap’. All that’s necessary is that it be affordable. As I mentioned above, I currently spend maybe a quarter of my income on food. This doesn’t make food cheap for me, but it does make it affordable.
I’ve hijacked the co box too much already; one last post just to say I am sorry for being so reactionary. My tone was not kind.
I felt judged and when you’re down, the last thing you want is to be kicked too. So I reacted. And I’m sorry.
On this topic I think alot of us will just have to agree to disagree. I don’t want to take away from Sharon’s most fantabulous blog. It’s great! 99% of the time I agree with everything here and the comments to boot. This is just one of the rare times I don’t.
Such hue and cry.
Having a multicultural background, I have been the recipient of the bad that comes from assumptions.
My take home message is that when people are prejudiced and ruled by assumptions there is very little I (you) can do to change their minds.
I am acutely aware of being judged and rather enjoy the inevitable confusion by those who operate from a judging stance when they hear me speak and what I have to say and perhaps when they learn a bit about me and my background.
For what its worth (not much?), I suggest that Jen and others who are disturbed by the experience spend a whole lot less time watching the lady in front of you at the grocery store (and wasting untold precious moments judging her based on so little) and a whole lot more time developing a little compassion and also tending to your own business. Its all you have because, short you making a citizens arrest (based on what evidence?), there is little you can do.
Resiliency will not include class warfare or any such wastes of time.
Resiliency comes when you operate from an outwardly oriented humane mindset.
This topic has really hit a nerve eh!
However I put it to you that food stamps and such are a subsidy for the supermarkets and BAU.
We’ve read Jim Merkels Radical Simplicity and are going to go fully bulk for our food needs that we can’t or don’t grow. One trip once a year to a bulk food store – about 200 kilometres away from our mountain farm.
We’ve been flaking our own oats and milling whole organic wheat for a while now but now we buy bulk oats, wheat, soy beans, sugar, salt and herbs and spices and the annual total is….
$526.85.
We now only go shopping for toiletry items and the occassional treat – Club Dark Chocolate!!! and some beer!!
We aim to live on my part time 8 hour per week job that will keep our little used vehicle on the road, pay our phone bill, Shire rates and clothes -
All our beans, greens, spuds, onions, leeks, garlic, pumpkins, and dairy are produced ourselves.
Apart from the dairy – what we do can be done from backyards across the western world..
When you think about it people who get food stamps have plenty of time to garden and so the government should just supply the staples, and a subsidy for the $1,000 or so for flaking, milling, juicing machines.
And of course the massive education campaign to teach the masses how to cook!!!
There was one excellent system that provided food for nearly everyone. Not cheap food, but mostly affordable. It was called the small farm. When small farms got run over by agri-business, we all suffered–individuals who could no longer find real food at any price, the environment, animals who lost their habitat, the families who lost their farms, the small towns that dried up because their source of income disappeared. Even the mega-corporations who appeared to be profiting at first will lose in the long run, because it isn’t a sustainable system.
Restoring small family farms is not something government can do (partly because government won’t do it, and partly because a farm isn’t something you can start up overnight, like a factory). About all government can do is to get out of the way and allow the people who want to farm in America to do it. Unfortunately, I don’t see that happening any time soon. There is too much clamor for cheap food, and too much interference from Monsanto et al.
As a partial measure toward restoring America’s agriculture, as many of us as possible need to be growing as much of our own food as possible, and everyone who simply can not do that needs to start buying through farmer’s markets, CSA’s, the guy down the road with a farmstand in his driveway, etc.. Every person whose tomatoes come from their own back yard (or front yard or apartment balcony or community garden or farmer’s market.) is one less person supporting agri-business. The only way to defeat the current agricultural system is to refuse to participate in it.
“When you think about it people who get food stamps have plenty of time to garden and so the government should just supply the staples, and a subsidy for the $1,000 or so for flaking, milling, juicing machines.”
Um, I hate to get back into this part of the discussion, but the majority of people who used food stamps in the past were the working poor. Now it’s apparently exanding to the suddenly unemployed middle class, but that doesn’t change the fact that you can’t feed yourself, much less a family, on what you make from a minimum wage job in the US (or two of them). As Sharon said, her own family would qualify for food stamps.
“The real problem is in rural areas where stores are few and far between to begin with, and where many older or poor people have no transportation. They end up buying from whatever convenience store is nearest, which probably has very little, if any, fresh foods or produce, and a small selection of other foods.”
This brought a couple of thoughts to mind because I had a conversation with a friend who was concerned about people in inner city areas too, where there were few stores (mostly 7-11 type), and it was a long bus ride to shop at real ones. Also, I have noticed that you see few gardens in the country as you drive along the road. They are more likely to be in the small towns, if there are any at all.
But I just read a charming book called ” French Dirt: The Story of a Garden in the South of France” by Richard Goodman. The village he settled in was so small that it had no stores of any kind, but separate trucks drove into the town square every day, to sell baked goods, fruits and veggies and all sorts of other products. I saw the same thing in small villages and RV parks in Mexico.
If there is a need, perhaps someone will step in to fill it. CSAs are already doing that in a different sort of way.
The idea that there are healthy foods that poor people don’t want to eat is depressing, though.
This has been a fascinating thread.
Great site. I live in France, and am very interested in this debate/conversation. I came to europe in 95 and married here in 2000. My wife is a french national. We began raising sheep 5 years ago as a hobby and because I thought it would be good for the our 2 boys. We started with 3 ewes and borrowed a ram every year from a local. I’ve now got my own ram and have added 4 ewes to the “herd”. Boy, am I glad I did. I have a sneeking suspicion that things are about to get really tough here.
Learning to knit is something that hadn’t occured to me, but what a great idea.
But my point Liz is that you can live on very little money – although you must stop eating out, and out of boxes and tins – eat fresh, home grown if possible and buy wheat, oats, beans etc in 25kg bags – once a year and don’t go near the shops..
Even on the paltry US minimal wage it is only a couple of hours work per week for the staples.
People must learn to be more self reliant, and more competent in day to day living… and stop wanting all the crap that ends too soon in landfill… and its good for the planet too…
http://www.radicalsimplicity.org/
Here in the Sacramento area it seems some of these ideas are getting through. I live close by a demonstration garden run by the University of California Master Gardeners. In previous years they had themes like “Waterwise gardening” and the like. There were always workshops on fruit trees and vegetable gardens, but that was not the focus. This year: Victory Gardens.
One other point. In my understanding of the term “middle class” does not simply refer to the median income group. It is a term for a group that is neither poor nor rich, but makes an income which provides stability and independence. That is why the health of the “middle class” is considered to be important to the functioning of a democracy. If feeding your family requires the assistance of the government, then I find it hard to believe that you are middle class. This is in no way a criticism. In my opinion far to many people have been tricked into seeing themselves as middle class by those in power to create a group of persons who advocate for the policies of the wealthy (who they believe they could join at any time, but who are profoundly fiscally insecure. Thus policies that screw the working class/lower class are supported by a “middle class” that is nothing of the sort.
Sounds like some of you would like to institute sumptuary laws. How archaic. And beside the point. In 1970/71 I lived with a disabled roommate who received food stamps. He didn’t pay rent but three of us ate for three weeks on his monthly allowance so we were getting nine “person weeks” from a four week supply. I would guess the program is not as generous these days but I learned a lot about frugal shopping and cooking that still applies. And these days I am having to apply that knowledge again. Everything possible is made from scratch including dry cereal and much of our bread, beans and grains are often a main dish and meat is stretched in soups, stews and stir fries. Health food stores often have great prices on bulk foods and seasonings and whole grains provide more nutrition than refined. None of this is new but frugal living became unfashionable along with tie-dye, bell bottoms and constructive rebellion. Now a new generation will have to learn the same lessons. I hope enough of our food system remains intact to feed us on this simpler level.
The media tries to convince us that “middle income” is the same as “middle income”. Nothing of the sort. As Texicali says, “It is a term for a group that is neither poor nor rich, but makes an income which provides stability and independence.” Middle class people value independence and work and personal responsibility, no matter how much money they make.
There are people whose income falls in the median range or are even rich but don’t have those values. (Look at some movie and recording “artists”.) Meanwhile there are people whose incomes may be low but will always be “middle class” because that’s how they live and think.
I appreciate Sharon’s post, as well as the discourse of respondants. I usually remain silent, however I feel compelled to comment to Jen and some others’ comments regarding food stamp users. 20 years ago I worked as a care/case worker for a dear disabled man. One of the many tasks I provided was his meal planning and prep, which included grocery shopping for him with his food stamps. I recall the embarrassment I felt and the stares I would get from others on the occasions that he was unable to accompany me. At times I even went to stores out of my way so that no one I knew would see me – even though this was part of my job. My issues were was based in part on my own previous bias (baggage/ignorance/snobbery) and “jugement” towards the use of food stamps. I did learn from those experiences that I have no room to judge others, for things are often not as they appear.
Peace,
Nell in Kitsap
“When you think about it people who get food stamps have plenty of time to garden ”
This is an assumption. Most people on food stamps have jobs, often full time, sometimes more than one. I work as a waitress. My job is exhausting, and I am a single mom. Which is exhausting as well, though immeasurably more rewarding. I’m not suggesting that I personally don’t have time to garden. I love my garden, and I make time for it. And I think that more people should try gardening. But I felt uncomfortable with the undertone of judgement in this statement, and I want people who are blessed enough to not have to rely on FS to understand better what the lives of those of us who do is really like. Receiving benefits does not increase my free time, it helps me feed my child.
Liz made some good points about current industrial agricultural systems: refuse to participate. This is the only way to defend ourselves against the system. Unfortunately, this is nearly impossible for many, especially in urban areas. A mix of not knowing where to buy local food, not knowing how to cook the food, and not understanding nutrition all play a role in why people rely so heavily on industrial agriculture. And Monsanto likes it that way . . . I guarantee it.
When you research agriculture, you really see how controlled the markets are. Large percentages of markets in the US, like hogs and poultry, are dominated by a handful of corporations who are diversified enough to handle the impact of market downturns. How does an independent farmer compete against such a regime, unless he or she breaks off into the organic/natural side of the markets? Hell, even those markets are now saturated with big corporate names.
I have seen the degradation of the American farmscape firsthand. I was raised on a working dairy and beef farm. My parents were never paid well for any commodity after about 1982. If there was a good year, profits were drained from a rise in operating costs the following year.
If you look back at American history from the early 80s on, it is quite evident that these years marked a huge shift into a consumer-based economy. People stopped farming and raising gardens. Women left home in droves to work office and factory jobs. Two-car households became the norm. In this time period, I believe many practical skills were lost in America. We are at a tipping point now, driven by corruption, overconsumption, and greed.
As for the food stamp discussion, our family went on them once, two weeks after we had a baby and my husband lost his job. I did not like being on them, but at least the state of WI made the process friendlier by issuing debit-style cards. This helped take away some of my embarrassment as I paid for my groceries at the checkout. There were times I would pay for groceries with cash instead-like if someone I knew came into the checkout line behind me.
I understand that food stamps are an absolute necessity for families at certain times in their lives. I know because I have been there. The disabled and elderly are especially deserving, I believe. But the whole time our family was on food stamps, I felt ashamed because people knew us as a hard-working, finacially-sound family. Walking to a checkout line with a food stamp card in-hand brought on emotions of defeat in my eyes.
We are again at the income level to where we could receive a bit of assistance. But we now have land to grow food on, and I feel that we need to strive for self-sufficiency and not rely on the government. It is hard to say how long the system will keep providing food stamp dollars. America is in tough shape financially, and it’s only a matter of time before the pendulum swings all the way back.
“But my point Liz is that you can live on very little money – although you must stop eating out, and out of boxes and tins – eat fresh, home grown if possible and buy wheat, oats, beans etc in 25kg bags – once a year and don’t go near the shops.”
I’d like to suggest that you come to a large city in the US, live in the only decent apartment you can find in a neighborhood you’re not afraid to live in (you might be lucky enough to get housing assistance for that apartment, but again you might not, and even if you do, you’ll still have to shell out a considerable amount of your own money), find a minimum wage job (if one is even available), and also wipe out of your memory that you know how to find, store and cook the right kind of food. Replace those memories with growing up on junk food, sugared cereal and fast food burgers, because that’s all you know.
Most cities have no place for anyone to grow their own, and only a few have decent farmers markets (even those are a long bus ride from most places in the city). Chicago is one city that is really working on making garden space available, but there are other problems besides just setting aside the space. My daughter lives in urban Baltimore, and found that she couldn’t grow anything outside because the rats would eat it. Rats will also be happy to eat your wheat, oats, beans, etc., even if you store them in plastic containers, even if you are lucky enough to find a place to buy them with your food stamps.
Please don’t anyone think I’m justifying the current system. It should be clear from my other posts that I’m not, and anyone who is reading my blog knows how strongly I push self-reliance. But blaming the people who are caught up in the system just doesn’t work. For things to change will take an effort from every single person who is able to help in any way at all. It will take community action to educate consumers on the value of real food and how to grow and prepare it, it will take federal action to stop favoring agri-business over small family farms, and it will take individual action to stop buying fast food and processed food, and to stop pointing fingers at the ones who are still less enlightened than we are.
Most people on food stamps literally do not have time to cook -most of them work 60-80 hour weeks and have to care for children as well. Have you ever tried working that kind of schedule? Cooking is an added burden. And in many states (like Alabama) the unemployed can only get food stamps for a short time -3 months here -even if they remain unemployed.
I’d add to the last comment what occured to me when I read the comment Liz is responding to (sorry if that’s confusing) – what if you’re living in a crappy 2 bedroom apartment with your 4 kids? Where on earth do you store a year’s worth of bulk purchases in plastic buckets? I’m not saying something couldn’t be worked out, I just know that most of my neighbors when I was living in that kind of place would give up long before trying to buy more than a week of groceries, simply because the cabinets/rooms were so dinky.
Wow, I haven’t been back to this thread in a couple of days, and there’s a lot of passion here – very interesting. I appreciate that most of you have been able to talk about a very sensitive subject in a fairly balanced way – that’s hard, and I genuinely appreciate it on all sides.
One of the things that genuinely fascinates me is how concerned most of us are with fairness – everyone here is, whether the fairness is fairness to those receiving food stamps or fairness to those who arent and who are struggling to get along. I sometimes wonder if the reason that we get so inflamed by basic questions of fairness in people who aren’t that different from us is that we feel so very helpless to deal with the questions of justice between us and the really rich and powerful. That is, we live in a sea of such profound and miserable inequity, and are really functionally forbidden to do more than lament it – it is so hard to get a handle on the depths of our inequity unless we’re willing to pull out the torches and pitchforks. So the questions of fairness that are accessible – is it reasonable that she has it easier than I do in some ways, at least to my own perception, become so important to us. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not immune to them either.
To those who wonder why I don’t object to the whole idea of food stamps – I think that at this point, small scale, local agriculture is fighting against so many counter subsidies that shifting even a small number of them towards local agriculture is likely to have a huge benefit. Yes, some farmer’s markets and farmers take food stamps – but usually only larger, well organized ones, because the process of getting set up to do so is costly and time consuming for them. The two large, established markets in my region both do – and the small, growing ones mostly do not. Shifting policy so that food subsidies are going towards local agriculture is essential – because in the world of subsidies it is damned hard for the small to compete with the large. In the longer term, of course, the large will lose – but it can take down a lot of the small with it in the first.
Sharon
When my son was a baby and I was a struggling mom on my own(not thru choice), I was in school and working but really broke. I applied for food stamps- a long long application and process, was made to feel terrible for asking and then was awarded I believe $22 for the month- and told I had to re-apply the following month. I resolved to just go it on my own after that and never returned. We had times when my son was little(before I had this farm)when I had $1 to my name and we just ate what was in the house. I still recall when some friends donated their “extra” cheese and orange juice from their WIC allocation- my son was over 5 then so we wouldn’t have qualified for it anyway. What a treat- real orange juice and Cabot cheese! I could never have afforded it.
I applaud anyting that gets people fed- and I won’t tolerate any judgemental crap on anyone’s part about it. When I was training a new volunteer at our local food shelf she commented about a client that he didn’t look like he “needed this”- what she meant was he looked healthy, carried himself well, etc. Would she prefer he stunk and cowered in the corner? I very carefully explained to her that we assume everyone who comes here is in need of this assistance or they wouldn’t come here and that there is no way to tell by looking at someone if they are “deserving” of the food shelf.
I would qualify now for the expanded food stamp assistance-and although I grow food I don’t grow all I need- and purchase other than produce or eggs at the store. I might consider even taking advantage of this program-if things got tighter. I will not go unwashed and in rags if I do however just to make someone feel that I am “in need” of it.
At one of our Farmers’ Markets we do take EBT cards but it is rarely used. I take the Farm to Family coupons happily and strive to help people max out their coupons fully. I love that program- it is simple and effective and I wish more money went to it.
I think that we never know what will happen to us down the road- sometimes through no fault of our own even- and we should approach assistance to others with this in mind. It could be us someday needing the help.
I will say that the commentary on this thread is a prime example of why I dread the coming necessity of getting food stamps for the first time. I have two children, so I will do it regardless of pride. But how horrible to think that now _everything_ about me will be scrutinized. What’s in my basket? What car am I driving? What clothes am I wearing? What are my children wearing? Do I look like I know how to cook and can? Do I look like I am trying to get other means of caring for me and my family going while I am taking this temporary help? Do I look like I have a clue about nutrition? Have I been abusing the system? How long have I been accepting handouts? All this and more will likely be going through the mind of the person watching me pull out that card.
Lovely.