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	<title>Comments on: This Place We Know</title>
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	<description>Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess.</description>
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		<title>By: So You Want to be a Farmer &#171; Schell Urban Homestead</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16182</link>
		<dc:creator>So You Want to be a Farmer &#171; Schell Urban Homestead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 20:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16182</guid>
		<description>[...] few months ago, I read a blog post called This Place We Knowby Sharon Astyk.  Sharon is a beautiful writer, and the post is quite long, but it really captures [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] few months ago, I read a blog post called This Place We Knowby Sharon Astyk.  Sharon is a beautiful writer, and the post is quite long, but it really captures [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16181</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 21:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16181</guid>
		<description>Twice a year I used to bring a goat, a rabbit and some hens to a local park where a friend of mine taught a bilingual Spanish/English parenting playgroup. I noticed the recent immigrants from Mexico always asked me if I also ate the animals, but the Americans rarely did. My affirmative answer was usually met with surprise and even disbelief, as if the person asking was just teasing, and hadn&#039;t expected that they would actually find that the animals were more than just pets.

Also, when my children were in bilingual preschool the first words they each really learned were all the names of the farm animals. So many songs for small children are very agrarian, as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Twice a year I used to bring a goat, a rabbit and some hens to a local park where a friend of mine taught a bilingual Spanish/English parenting playgroup. I noticed the recent immigrants from Mexico always asked me if I also ate the animals, but the Americans rarely did. My affirmative answer was usually met with surprise and even disbelief, as if the person asking was just teasing, and hadn&#8217;t expected that they would actually find that the animals were more than just pets.</p>
<p>Also, when my children were in bilingual preschool the first words they each really learned were all the names of the farm animals. So many songs for small children are very agrarian, as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Sophia MacRae</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16180</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophia MacRae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 22:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16180</guid>
		<description>Lovely writing.

But I have to say that this hasn&#039;t been my experience with my 3 year old son.
He LOVES tractors. And cars, and trains, and bikes, and trolleys, and wheelbarrows, and anything with wheels. He shows very little interest in most animals, even when given the opportunity to interact with live ones. In his picture books, on the farm pages full of animals, and a few tractors/harvestors, his only interest is in the machinary. His first word was &quot;ball&quot;, and currently he loves saying &quot;WHEEL!&quot; pointing to anything that has wheels.
This is hard for me! I am vegan, living car-free, we go EVERYWHERE by bike, and he likes that well enough, but his world is focused around oil-age machines... (and me, I guess!)
He likes his books about ducks and bears, but doesn&#039;t say any animal sounds, instead he identitifies Mama duck, and Baby duck, and Frog... (he likes jumping like a frog).
The farm paradigm is absent from his world, and maybe that is partly my fault, as I have not read traditional farm stories to him. And we live in an urban environment. But we never have supermarket tantrums, because we never do our shopping in a supermarket, luckily there are wonderful small organic stores and markets around us. He sees food in its unpackaged, unplastic, unprocessed state in my kitchen. And when he is older, I hope that food origins and small-scale food production will be figuring MUCH higher than cars and trucks in the general paradigm... I want to go back to the farm too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lovely writing.</p>
<p>But I have to say that this hasn&#8217;t been my experience with my 3 year old son.<br />
He LOVES tractors. And cars, and trains, and bikes, and trolleys, and wheelbarrows, and anything with wheels. He shows very little interest in most animals, even when given the opportunity to interact with live ones. In his picture books, on the farm pages full of animals, and a few tractors/harvestors, his only interest is in the machinary. His first word was &#8220;ball&#8221;, and currently he loves saying &#8220;WHEEL!&#8221; pointing to anything that has wheels.<br />
This is hard for me! I am vegan, living car-free, we go EVERYWHERE by bike, and he likes that well enough, but his world is focused around oil-age machines&#8230; (and me, I guess!)<br />
He likes his books about ducks and bears, but doesn&#8217;t say any animal sounds, instead he identitifies Mama duck, and Baby duck, and Frog&#8230; (he likes jumping like a frog).<br />
The farm paradigm is absent from his world, and maybe that is partly my fault, as I have not read traditional farm stories to him. And we live in an urban environment. But we never have supermarket tantrums, because we never do our shopping in a supermarket, luckily there are wonderful small organic stores and markets around us. He sees food in its unpackaged, unplastic, unprocessed state in my kitchen. And when he is older, I hope that food origins and small-scale food production will be figuring MUCH higher than cars and trucks in the general paradigm&#8230; I want to go back to the farm too.</p>
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		<title>By: Carrick</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16179</link>
		<dc:creator>Carrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 22:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16179</guid>
		<description>Really interesting article.  I&#039;d just been thinking the other day about how when I was a kid, I thought living on a farm would be the coolest thing ever (getting into the DIY world has brought all this stuff up).  Even just morning chores--feeding the chickens, milking the cows--seemed so fun.  Of course, anything in a completely different world seems fun, so I&#039;m sure farmer kids were totally bored by it and I&#039;m sure I would have been bored by it after just a few days, but I also loved the outdoors in general, as well.

I guess most kids do.  But I mean, I was kind of hardcore about it.  Every so often we would go up to the mountains where we had a cabin and I would spend hours exploring or feeding the birds and squirrels.  I loved books about kids who had to rough it outdoors on their own.

Now, as an adult, that affinity has been almost completely died.  Is it because I&#039;ve grown up in an industrialized world?  I dunno; I know lots of people my age who have grown up in the same world love the outdoors.  Is it just my personality?  Possibly.  However, I don&#039;t think that growing up on a farm would have changed that.  My great-grandfather grew up on a farm and hated it--he wanted to be a lawyer instead.

While farm living is fascinating to me at the moment for practical reasons--because the old ways of farming were so much more sustainable--I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything inherently virtuous about it.

I would also argue that teaching children farm animal sounds in spite of no longer living on a farm is more due to tradition than anything.  Think of all the nonsensical, centuries-old nursery rhymes we still teach children.  Raising children seems to be steeped in tradition, no matter what it is.

But even that tradition fades.  The oldest nursery rhyme still in common use is only from the 1600s or so (I happened to look this up recently, coincidentally).  If the majority of people continue to live in cities instead of rural areas (this switch happened just a few years ago or something)--assuming massive social upheaval from peak oil or climate change doesn&#039;t happen--then I think we&#039;ll see a shift in what parents teach children from rural to urban topics--such as switching out cow sounds for car sounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting article.  I&#8217;d just been thinking the other day about how when I was a kid, I thought living on a farm would be the coolest thing ever (getting into the DIY world has brought all this stuff up).  Even just morning chores&#8211;feeding the chickens, milking the cows&#8211;seemed so fun.  Of course, anything in a completely different world seems fun, so I&#8217;m sure farmer kids were totally bored by it and I&#8217;m sure I would have been bored by it after just a few days, but I also loved the outdoors in general, as well.</p>
<p>I guess most kids do.  But I mean, I was kind of hardcore about it.  Every so often we would go up to the mountains where we had a cabin and I would spend hours exploring or feeding the birds and squirrels.  I loved books about kids who had to rough it outdoors on their own.</p>
<p>Now, as an adult, that affinity has been almost completely died.  Is it because I&#8217;ve grown up in an industrialized world?  I dunno; I know lots of people my age who have grown up in the same world love the outdoors.  Is it just my personality?  Possibly.  However, I don&#8217;t think that growing up on a farm would have changed that.  My great-grandfather grew up on a farm and hated it&#8211;he wanted to be a lawyer instead.</p>
<p>While farm living is fascinating to me at the moment for practical reasons&#8211;because the old ways of farming were so much more sustainable&#8211;I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything inherently virtuous about it.</p>
<p>I would also argue that teaching children farm animal sounds in spite of no longer living on a farm is more due to tradition than anything.  Think of all the nonsensical, centuries-old nursery rhymes we still teach children.  Raising children seems to be steeped in tradition, no matter what it is.</p>
<p>But even that tradition fades.  The oldest nursery rhyme still in common use is only from the 1600s or so (I happened to look this up recently, coincidentally).  If the majority of people continue to live in cities instead of rural areas (this switch happened just a few years ago or something)&#8211;assuming massive social upheaval from peak oil or climate change doesn&#8217;t happen&#8211;then I think we&#8217;ll see a shift in what parents teach children from rural to urban topics&#8211;such as switching out cow sounds for car sounds.</p>
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		<title>By: Anisa</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16178</link>
		<dc:creator>Anisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 20:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16178</guid>
		<description>Wow - beautiful.  This captures everything I want for my children... to be connected with their food and what a farm is.  It is amazing how quickly they understand and are not bothered by the &quot;dark side&quot; of farming.  In fact, I don&#039;t think they see it as dark at all.  My two year old always knows what he&#039;s eating, and has even made comments about live animals being good to eat.  It&#039;s amazing to me, because I wasn&#039;t sure how he would react to these teachings... so many people are so disconnected from thier food.  They can&#039;t stand the idea of eating Bambi or a rabbit or a chicken they&#039;ve actually seen.

This post really moved me.  I needed it today.

Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; beautiful.  This captures everything I want for my children&#8230; to be connected with their food and what a farm is.  It is amazing how quickly they understand and are not bothered by the &#8220;dark side&#8221; of farming.  In fact, I don&#8217;t think they see it as dark at all.  My two year old always knows what he&#8217;s eating, and has even made comments about live animals being good to eat.  It&#8217;s amazing to me, because I wasn&#8217;t sure how he would react to these teachings&#8230; so many people are so disconnected from thier food.  They can&#8217;t stand the idea of eating Bambi or a rabbit or a chicken they&#8217;ve actually seen.</p>
<p>This post really moved me.  I needed it today.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16177</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 18:58:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16177</guid>
		<description>Sharon, wonderful piece! I was lucky to have two farms when I was a kid. The first was my aunt and uncle&#039;s small dairy farm. The barn with the hayloft and kittens, the milk room, the pasture next to the house, the chickens that pecked when we tried to get eggs, and Brownie, the dog who was trained to bring in the cows for milking were all part of my childhood.

I think the only time my uncle got angry was if you went near the pig pen--they were mean and he worried I&#039;d be hurt. Or if you made too much noise in the barn when the cows were being milked--if frightened the cows and they gave less milk. He had a pet cow that he would let me pet on the nose and sometimes let me sit on. And if there were calves in the calf pen he would let me dip my fingers in the milk and let them suck it off to feel how raspy their tongues were.

And then there was the farm my mother grew up on during the Depression. It was just down the road from my uncles farm. Her parents were gone and the farm sold but all the stories my mother told about growing up there are still fresh. I have the blankets that were woven at the local mill from wool sheared from the sheep she took care of as a child. I have my grandmother&#039;s sock knitting needles she made the family&#039;s socks and stockings with. I have one of her aprons, complete with a stain, that she hand sewed and decorated with bright green rick rack. I have my grandfather&#039;s hand wood working tools he used to make the bedroom set I have in my room. I have the canning jars my grandmother got when she bought coffee--the coffee came in the jars. I even have some of the flour sack towels my mother did hemstitching on to make them prettier when she was a girl.

She talked about home when we were canning peaches or putting up pickles or making the apple sauce. She talked about home when she taught me to sew, to hemstitch towels, to turn the heel on a sock, and especially to plant the onions in a straight, not wibbly wobbly, row.

We live on a farm now. Mom is gone almost 5 years now but when I go to visit my aunt, she always sends home something she&#039;s growing even tho she&#039;s 95....it&#039;s in her blood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sharon, wonderful piece! I was lucky to have two farms when I was a kid. The first was my aunt and uncle&#8217;s small dairy farm. The barn with the hayloft and kittens, the milk room, the pasture next to the house, the chickens that pecked when we tried to get eggs, and Brownie, the dog who was trained to bring in the cows for milking were all part of my childhood.</p>
<p>I think the only time my uncle got angry was if you went near the pig pen&#8211;they were mean and he worried I&#8217;d be hurt. Or if you made too much noise in the barn when the cows were being milked&#8211;if frightened the cows and they gave less milk. He had a pet cow that he would let me pet on the nose and sometimes let me sit on. And if there were calves in the calf pen he would let me dip my fingers in the milk and let them suck it off to feel how raspy their tongues were.</p>
<p>And then there was the farm my mother grew up on during the Depression. It was just down the road from my uncles farm. Her parents were gone and the farm sold but all the stories my mother told about growing up there are still fresh. I have the blankets that were woven at the local mill from wool sheared from the sheep she took care of as a child. I have my grandmother&#8217;s sock knitting needles she made the family&#8217;s socks and stockings with. I have one of her aprons, complete with a stain, that she hand sewed and decorated with bright green rick rack. I have my grandfather&#8217;s hand wood working tools he used to make the bedroom set I have in my room. I have the canning jars my grandmother got when she bought coffee&#8211;the coffee came in the jars. I even have some of the flour sack towels my mother did hemstitching on to make them prettier when she was a girl.</p>
<p>She talked about home when we were canning peaches or putting up pickles or making the apple sauce. She talked about home when she taught me to sew, to hemstitch towels, to turn the heel on a sock, and especially to plant the onions in a straight, not wibbly wobbly, row.</p>
<p>We live on a farm now. Mom is gone almost 5 years now but when I go to visit my aunt, she always sends home something she&#8217;s growing even tho she&#8217;s 95&#8230;.it&#8217;s in her blood.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16176</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 06:37:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16176</guid>
		<description>Thanks for a great post. I grew up on three farms in Australia, I only left the farm when I was 17. That said, I wouldn&#039;t call myself a farm girl - much preferring books to taking food scraps to the chickens. My two young girls have many farm books and know all the animal sounds. I didn&#039;t realise how much farm was still in me until I took my two young daughters to the countryside to visit their grandparents. I work overseas and we live in an apartment in Mongolia (no garden, no pets). My girls got out of the car and immediately started crying when the friendly farm dog ran up to say hello. It took two days of &quot;dog therapy&quot; to get them to sit and pat the dog without fear. I am now annoying my husband by insisting that when we return home I want to buy a home on a site big enough for a micro-farm. I can&#039;t go back to the family farm though, they have upscaled since I left and are now players in the industrial farming world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for a great post. I grew up on three farms in Australia, I only left the farm when I was 17. That said, I wouldn&#8217;t call myself a farm girl &#8211; much preferring books to taking food scraps to the chickens. My two young girls have many farm books and know all the animal sounds. I didn&#8217;t realise how much farm was still in me until I took my two young daughters to the countryside to visit their grandparents. I work overseas and we live in an apartment in Mongolia (no garden, no pets). My girls got out of the car and immediately started crying when the friendly farm dog ran up to say hello. It took two days of &#8220;dog therapy&#8221; to get them to sit and pat the dog without fear. I am now annoying my husband by insisting that when we return home I want to buy a home on a site big enough for a micro-farm. I can&#8217;t go back to the family farm though, they have upscaled since I left and are now players in the industrial farming world.</p>
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		<title>By: Lori Scott</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16175</link>
		<dc:creator>Lori Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 05:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16175</guid>
		<description>So many feelings this piece evoked.  My first thoughts were of the little girl who lived next door to us.

Our cat was a talker - you know some of them are very noisy.  This toddler was the youngest of three small children and didn&#039;t talk, never having much chance amongst the noise.

Their mother didn&#039;t talk to them, entertaining with the TV.  This little girl fascinated me in that she spent such a long time &#039;talking&#039; to my cat.  She could mimic his meows perfectly and you couldn&#039;t tell which one was making them.

She was convinced he was talking back to her and I think he might have been the best friend she ever had.  I wonder if she ever remembers him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So many feelings this piece evoked.  My first thoughts were of the little girl who lived next door to us.</p>
<p>Our cat was a talker &#8211; you know some of them are very noisy.  This toddler was the youngest of three small children and didn&#8217;t talk, never having much chance amongst the noise.</p>
<p>Their mother didn&#8217;t talk to them, entertaining with the TV.  This little girl fascinated me in that she spent such a long time &#8216;talking&#8217; to my cat.  She could mimic his meows perfectly and you couldn&#8217;t tell which one was making them.</p>
<p>She was convinced he was talking back to her and I think he might have been the best friend she ever had.  I wonder if she ever remembers him.</p>
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		<title>By: It&#8217;s About Making Babies! &#187; The idyll farm in toddler literature</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16174</link>
		<dc:creator>It&#8217;s About Making Babies! &#187; The idyll farm in toddler literature</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 03:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16174</guid>
		<description>[...] she wrote about This Place We Know on Casaubon&#8217;s Book. How a visiting toddler knew farm animal sounds better than some of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] she wrote about This Place We Know on Casaubon&#8217;s Book. How a visiting toddler knew farm animal sounds better than some of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/comment-page-1/#comment-16173</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 00:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/05/17/this-place-we-know/#comment-16173</guid>
		<description>I agree with kids being able to &quot;take the trauma&quot; of animal butchering. My kids know the farm where their meat comes from 12 miles away. We pick it up. At dinner they call Farmer Rollie by name asking if this was his chicken. They have visited and when they are older, if we don&#039;t have animals and land by then, they will help out there to learn more. I talk often to my son about being a farmer (oldest daughter has already decided to be a mom:). They are set to help our dairy farmer (3 miles away) milk cows. We live in a small town of a bigger city, but have built relationships with farmers for food and experience.   I&#039;m not one to sugar coat things and food and the importance of raising an growing food are important endeavors in our house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with kids being able to &#8220;take the trauma&#8221; of animal butchering. My kids know the farm where their meat comes from 12 miles away. We pick it up. At dinner they call Farmer Rollie by name asking if this was his chicken. They have visited and when they are older, if we don&#8217;t have animals and land by then, they will help out there to learn more. I talk often to my son about being a farmer (oldest daughter has already decided to be a mom:). They are set to help our dairy farmer (3 miles away) milk cows. We live in a small town of a bigger city, but have built relationships with farmers for food and experience.   I&#8217;m not one to sugar coat things and food and the importance of raising an growing food are important endeavors in our house.</p>
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