Comments on: Adapting In Place Is Not a Choice For Most of Us http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:36:58 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: andy http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22027 andy Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:35:57 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22027 we migrated 6years ago, are building food forests, and have bought yurts and caravans so we can house up to 20 family members and friends. we migrated 6years ago, are building food forests, and have bought yurts and caravans so we can house up to 20 family members and friends.

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By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22022 Sharon Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:30:33 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22022 I agree there will be a lot of migrants, but I'm not actually sure this precludes adapting in place - a lot of people aren't ready or able to leave their place yet, and will only do so when the situation gets dire - that is, they will adapt in place as long as they can, and then migrate. Others will migrate earlier, and then adapt in place. It isn't really an either/or thing, so much as a continuum. Sharon I agree there will be a lot of migrants, but I’m not actually sure this precludes adapting in place - a lot of people aren’t ready or able to leave their place yet, and will only do so when the situation gets dire - that is, they will adapt in place as long as they can, and then migrate. Others will migrate earlier, and then adapt in place. It isn’t really an either/or thing, so much as a continuum.

Sharon

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By: Julien Peter Benney http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22021 Julien Peter Benney Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:28:47 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-22021 Interesting thought. Have you realised the problems Australia's farmers, the most efficient in the world, will face as global warming turns their wheatfields into deserts where the only rainfall occurs when wheat is not growing? What irrigation farmers will do once the Murray and Murrumbidge go years without a drop of runoff is a similar dilemma. Your point that people are becoming less mobile is true, though I am less sure whether it applies to Australia where development laws are less restrictive. However, the water shortages of southern Australia's cities are worse than those farmers face, and the soils of the well-watered north have proved an insurmountable obstacle to farming since long before European settlement. Interesting thought.

Have you realised the problems Australia’s farmers, the most efficient in the world, will face as global warming turns their wheatfields into deserts where the only rainfall occurs when wheat is not growing? What irrigation farmers will do once the Murray and Murrumbidge go years without a drop of runoff is a similar dilemma.

Your point that people are becoming less mobile is true, though I am less sure whether it applies to Australia where development laws are less restrictive. However, the water shortages of southern Australia’s cities are worse than those farmers face, and the soils of the well-watered north have proved an insurmountable obstacle to farming since long before European settlement.

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By: AnneT http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21981 AnneT Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:55:28 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21981 We bought the house we have nearly 14 years ago because it was on a 160' by 55' lot and I could walk to work from it. We could also walk to downtown and about 80% of the shopping we do. The house is paid off -- we put in more in bumper payments each year than we did in actual mortgage+taxes payments and got it paid off in ten years -- we could afford it because I had a very good job and we were able to sell off some property (we had to buy the house from scratch initially because I couldn't sell our old house in another city right away and we also were carrying a high interest loan on a business loan) by the third year we were into it. We had to replace the major roof, do extensive renovations, go from 100 amp service to 200 amp and gradually move to better appliances because the ones we got with the house died. We paid $75,000 for the place and that was $5000 less than we had credit room for. Fortunately my husband qualified for a "first-time home owner's" subsidy on the down payment -- I'd gotten the other house before we married. I grew up working-class (and on a farm -- we didn't own, my father was a hired worker) so I've been adverse to heavy debt and carrying debt for a long time. That house was the longest debt I ever had. I'm good with math and always kept financial records. It served us well. I did the homestead thing for a while in Nova Scotia over thirty years ago. Then my first husband and I split and sold the place. I got another, moved a house on to it, lost it in a property line dispute, and went on to computer work and living in cities. In Sault Ste Marie I lived 20 minutes out of town and hated having to have a car to go to work, shopping, cultural events, etc. For me solving the rural/urban conundrum meant getting a small house on a big lot in a small city where I could walk or bike to most everything. I started adopting in place about 14 years ago! The two years before I retired I made the garden side of things a big capital investment. Doing more with it now involves a lot of creative reuse (people still throw good things out), bargain hunting, and investing my time and energy in projects. Capital investment this year (with some savings and grants) is to making the house tighter and more energy efficient. Ontario and the Canadian government has some good rebates for that sort of work -- so we're taking advantage of it. We bought the house we have nearly 14 years ago because it was on a 160′ by 55′ lot and I could walk to work from it. We could also walk to downtown and about 80% of the shopping we do. The house is paid off — we put in more in bumper payments each year than we did in actual mortgage+taxes payments and got it paid off in ten years — we could afford it because I had a very good job and we were able to sell off some property (we had to buy the house from scratch initially because I couldn’t sell our old house in another city right away and we also were carrying a high interest loan on a business loan) by the third year we were into it. We had to replace the major roof, do extensive renovations, go from 100 amp service to 200 amp and gradually move to better appliances because the ones we got with the house died. We paid $75,000 for the place and that was $5000 less than we had credit room for. Fortunately my husband qualified for a “first-time home owner’s” subsidy on the down payment — I’d gotten the other house before we married.

I grew up working-class (and on a farm — we didn’t own, my father was a hired worker) so I’ve been adverse to heavy debt and carrying debt for a long time. That house was the longest debt I ever had. I’m good with math and always kept financial records. It served us well.

I did the homestead thing for a while in Nova Scotia over thirty years ago. Then my first husband and I split and sold the place. I got another, moved a house on to it, lost it in a property line dispute, and went on to computer work and living in cities. In Sault Ste Marie I lived 20 minutes out of town and hated having to have a car to go to work, shopping, cultural events, etc. For me solving the rural/urban conundrum meant getting a small house on a big lot in a small city where I could walk or bike to most everything.

I started adopting in place about 14 years ago! The two years before I retired I made the garden side of things a big capital investment. Doing more with it now involves a lot of creative reuse (people still throw good things out), bargain hunting, and investing my time and energy in projects.

Capital investment this year (with some savings and grants) is to making the house tighter and more energy efficient. Ontario and the Canadian government has some good rebates for that sort of work — so we’re taking advantage of it.

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By: Jerry http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21970 Jerry Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:41:40 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21970 It is not to hard for me to adapt to living in place because it's the only place I,ve ever lived. I have about 100 acres of good farmland some wet and some dry so its a good mix in both dry and wet years. I,m also ashamed to admit that although I know a lot about cows I have no knowledge of working animals. We as a nation have lost so much knowledge of how to survive in an oil short world. I think back of my grandfather who passed away 23 years ago and all the knowledge that he had on working horses. At least I pasture my cows coming full circle to the way they farmed around here 60 years ago. We also have a large brick farmhouse that could fit plenty of people if times get really rough. They of course would have to help run the farm. It is not to hard for me to adapt to living in place because it’s the only place I,ve ever lived. I have about 100 acres of good farmland some wet and some dry so its a good mix in both dry and wet years. I,m also ashamed to admit that although I know a lot about cows I have no knowledge of working animals. We as a nation have lost so much knowledge of how to survive in an oil short world. I think back of my grandfather who passed away 23 years ago and all the knowledge that he had on working horses. At least I pasture my cows coming full circle to the way they farmed around here 60 years ago.

We also have a large brick farmhouse that could fit plenty of people if times get really rough. They of course would have to help run the farm.

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By: Malin http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21969 Malin Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:40:43 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21969 Hey I really see the point of learning to adopt in place - the no-choice for many. Still if I think of a map, where most people live and where droughts/floods/etc are increasing, it would make sense for those who can to move back to the rural areas. If we can choose which couch to surf, can we find relatives or friends in rainy agricultural regions? Malin Hey

I really see the point of learning to adopt in place - the no-choice for many. Still if I think of a map, where most people live and where droughts/floods/etc are increasing, it would make sense for those who can to move back to the rural areas.

If we can choose which couch to surf, can we find relatives or friends in rainy agricultural regions?

Malin

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By: Susan http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21964 Susan Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:17:48 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21964 Darn, Andrea beat me to it...but you forgot the tic tacs. Great as incendiary devices when ground up and placed into the paper from the chewing gum. That really was a great show, too bad he was such a $h!t in real life. My middle son and his girlfriend are back living with her mom, about 25 miles from me. They used to have goats, chickens, rabbits, and a very large garden. They don't any more because her mom can't afford the water bill. I have actually thought about buying the rabbits and planting the garden, and paying the extra in water for them so that I could use the land -- it seems a shame that it goes to waste. I keep our house stocked with bedding, towels, food, places to sleep etc. on the chance that I may be having more people living with us at some point. There's no place for us to go, other than to my husband's dad's house 45 miles away but he's over his head in mortgage payments and there's NO place to grow food so I would rather squat here if need be. Darn, Andrea beat me to it…but you forgot the tic tacs. Great as incendiary devices when ground up and placed into the paper from the chewing gum.

That really was a great show, too bad he was such a $h!t in real life.

My middle son and his girlfriend are back living with her mom, about 25 miles from me. They used to have goats, chickens, rabbits, and a very large garden. They don’t any more because her mom can’t afford the water bill. I have actually thought about buying the rabbits and planting the garden, and paying the extra in water for them so that I could use the land — it seems a shame that it goes to waste. I keep our house stocked with bedding, towels, food, places to sleep etc. on the chance that I may be having more people living with us at some point. There’s no place for us to go, other than to my husband’s dad’s house 45 miles away but he’s over his head in mortgage payments and there’s NO place to grow food so I would rather squat here if need be.

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By: Avec Frites http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21963 Avec Frites Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:15:57 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21963 Actually, toilet paper will be one of things in short supply. If we're going to adapt in place in our split-level houses, the most important thing is to get the neighbors on board. If everyone can share tools, watch the free-range children, keep an eye out for strangers, swap food for wood, etc., then a neighborhood has a much better change of surviving. The challenge so far is getting anyone (not "everyone", but "anyone") to take seriously the notion of long-term decline, so we can accelerate the learning and sharing process. So, what I'd like to read more about is: 1) How one molds a (say 100 house) neighborhood into a kind-of-self-contained village -- what does it look like when it's working; and 2) How one starts the process without everyone thinking you're a nut and refusing to have play dates with your kids? Actually, toilet paper will be one of things in short supply.

If we’re going to adapt in place in our split-level houses, the most important thing is to get the neighbors on board. If everyone can share tools, watch the free-range children, keep an eye out for strangers, swap food for wood, etc., then a neighborhood has a much better change of surviving. The challenge so far is getting anyone (not “everyone”, but “anyone”) to take seriously the notion of long-term decline, so we can accelerate the learning and sharing process.

So, what I’d like to read more about is:
1) How one molds a (say 100 house) neighborhood into a kind-of-self-contained village — what does it look like when it’s working; and
2) How one starts the process without everyone thinking you’re a nut and refusing to have play dates with your kids?

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By: Heather G http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21961 Heather G Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:58:37 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21961 Definitely seeing that around here too. MacGyver was also into eating healthy food and building community ;) Definitely seeing that around here too.

MacGyver was also into eating healthy food and building community ;)

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By: Andrea http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21957 Andrea Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:24:26 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/29/adapting-in-place-is-not-a-choice-for-most-of-us/#comment-21957 Add a wad of chewing gum and a rusty paper clip to your baling twine and toilet paper and you've totally got the idea behind MacGyver. Wow. Could he work a mullet LOL. Add a wad of chewing gum and a rusty paper clip to your baling twine and toilet paper and you’ve totally got the idea behind MacGyver. Wow. Could he work a mullet LOL.

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