Permaculture Future?: Part I
Sharon June 29th, 2009
Recently, Dmitry Orlov offered a selection of possible topics for a talk he was giving, and several of them dealt with the ubiquity of permaculture as the articulated solution to our present crisis. Orlov’s point was that a consensus seems to be emerging that permaculture strategies – particularly the Transition movement – have emerged as the de facto solution to our collective crisis without a lot of public conversation or questioning. I didn’t get to hear Dmitry’s commentary on this subject (although I can guess what some of it would be), but it pushed me to begin a subject I’ve been gently avoiding for a while.
Now I am commonly described as a permaculturist, and I’ve no objection, in fact it rather pleases me - I generally don’t worry much about how people describe me, and this is one of the nicer ways. Officially, I’m not sure I qualify – I’ve never taken a full design course myself, and am mostly self-taught. I’ve taught in a few design classes, but have never sought certification for one reason – I don’t think of myself primarily as a designer, at least in a classical sense. That may seem strange, since a lot of what I do is design work – I teach garden design, Adapting in Place (ie, designing your life to work with less money and energy), etc… But permaculture design is formal design of a particular kind – deeply visual, deeply concerned with maps and images. I’m not a terribly visual person – my own strengths have to do with the translation of the world into words, not images. There are too many pictures in permaculture design for me 
.
Moreover, I tend not to sign up quickly for membership in “ists” or “isms” – even ones that I approve of deeply. The only club I officially belong to is the order of agrarians, and only because I want to meet Wendell Berry someday .
Despite my lack of official signing up (I have the same issues with joining the Kantians ) I do approve of permaculture in a broad sense. I like many of the things it has brought to our society as a whole, and I like many permaculturists. I can think of far worse principles from which to build a new society. Moreover, I give enormous credit to Rob Hopkins and Transition practitioners, who have essentially created the only viable, large scale alternate model for dealing with a coming crisis – that’s quite an accomplishment. One of the reasons I have not written this post before is that I really don’t want to criticize or undermine permaculture and transition, which have been fairly successful – Transition astonishing successful in a short time – in energizing a lot of people with a new idea and vision. Given our shortage of good solutions for responding, and the need for coherent solutions, I don’t want to seem as though I’m sniping at something I admire and value.
That said, however, I admit to some doubts about the political viability of permaculture as a solution for our collective crisis, doubts I’m going to articulate here, in the interest of promoting a larger discussion about permaculture, and about the possibility of movements in general as a strategy of mitigation. I do want to be clear that I am not trying to undermine the enormous efforts made by people involved in permaculture and Transition, nor do I want to see them discontinue their efforts. But I do feel that there are questions to be discussed and answered.
I should be absolutely clear here – all of my concerns about permaculture are about elements of permaculture’s presentation and emphasis – not about the overall goals of Transition or the permaculture movement. That is, even if I don’t qualify as an official permaculturist, even if I critique them, there is no question I want to work with permaculturists – their emphasis on scale, on integrating food production and local economies, their emphasis on appropriate technology – all of these things are, I think, absolutely right. The question is not whether permaculture is bad – I would deny that outright. The question for me is whether permaculture and its offshoots, as they are presented and emphasized now, can do what they would like to do – make a smooth (or smoother) transition than any other method through tough times.
The first one is a philosophical one – can permaculture as a movement actually attract enough mainstream people to really and truly make a difference? This to me is a sincere and serious question, and perhaps the deepest issue to be addressed. When I have given talks at permaculture classes, attended group meetings, or given talks to permaculturist audiences, I’ve noticed a pervasive consistency among the attendees. While there are exceptions, and I can’t speak for permaculturist gatherings outside the US, the ones I’ve attended (and I’ve attended quite a few in different areas of the country) have had some common denominators. The attendees tend to be white and middle class, or if they are not middle class, they are very young, and immersed in alternative culture. I don’t mean to stereotype, but most of the people who attend these groups tend to visually signal their attachment to historical leftist or alternative communities. There are plenty of exceptions, but the predominance is of grey pony tails, yoga mats, priuses, flowered skirts and lefty bumperstickers. These are not bad things – I grew up in precisely this culture and am quite fond of it. But the absence of trucks with gun racks, right wing bumper stickers, non-white people and other signifiers of ideological is somewhat disheartening, if you are looking for a universal movement. At the Albany permaculture gathering, I was discussing with one of the other participants how pleased I was that the demographic involved more younger people, only to be mocked by the speaker, Larry Santoyo, for praising the diversity of the nearly all-white group. And he was right – my standards have just been lowered over time .
I realize that permaculture has a somewhat wider audience in the UK and Australia, and that these may be primarily American objections. The US, for example, has never gotten permaculture into any soap opera . I also recognize that both are comparatively new here in the US, and that the early adopters don’t necessarily describe who will come to the fold in the long term. Both are meant to be deeply flexible and adaptive to local conditions, and it is possible that they will become so. There is a case to be made that some elements of leftist culture – universal therapy, yoga and tofu, for example, have permeated into the mainstream of American culture quite gracefully. There is a case to be made, however, on the other side, that other elements have not.
My claim is not that permaculture as an idea is ideologically leftist, or particularly hippyish, but that its practice has been, at least in the US. And this, I think is, quite frankly, a bad thing if the goal is the creation of a mass movement. Frankly, having grown up the child of baby boomers, my own tastes don’t run that way. I find myself in sympathy with people who aren’t attracted to the Transition Training’s emphasis on visualizing, community building activities, etc… My own entry into visualization exercises and trust-building dates back to summer camps as a child, and the whole thing makes me a bit queasy. When the words “get in a circle” are uttered, I tend to start wandering off. I recognize this may be my own personal design flaw, but I have no interest in ever building a Web of Resilience, and I think it extremely unlikely that many of my neighbors would be interested as well, or would take time off work and home life for it. I’m sure some of them would, but the emphasis of many permaculturists on the language of popular therapy and summer-camp style activities designed to create consensus, build trust and visualize the sustainable future are, well a turn off for whole classes of people. They will speak to other groups – but the question of who you are speaking to is, of course, the essential one.
Even the language of “acknowledging one’s sense of loss and grief” is one that is tough for a lot of people to swallow, despite the pervasiveness of Oprah and Dr. Phil. I think there is a real question about how much public discussion of one’s feelings is going to be attractive in different populations and communities. A friend of mine recently attended Transition Training in his town, and said to me “there was good stuff, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that I was about to join a cult.” This is not the impression one wants to cultivate . I make no claim that his experience was universal, but I’ve heard more than few people express similar sentiments from different parts of the US and different countries.
There are countries in the world and a few regions of the US in which a movement that uses tools that primarily appeal to the crunchy left will be successful. Speaking as an American, for America as a whole, however, I do not think the entire US is one of them, nor are most regions. I think it is important to recognize that while permaculture itself is not a leftist movement philosophically, an extended diet of bearded and ponytailed permaculture teachers and enthusiasts ;-) making comments about the Republicans will tend to associate the movement with the politics of its public faces.
The painful reality of American politics for us leftists is that at no time as the American public cast open its arms and said “we were just waiting for you to invite us to join with you” . Associate permaculture to closely with the American left, and the reality is that many people won’t join.
Is there a solution that problem? I suspect so, perhaps some attention to the design of permaculture’s PR image. Many (not all) of the people who embraced permaculture were mostly on the left, at least to a degree (thank G-d for Bill Mollison and Larry Santoyo, who offer a cheerful confirmation that permaculture really isn’t politically associated with one side or another, and provide hard drinking, reality pushing, capitalist (in Larry’s case, anyway), versions of the things itself – I may not be a capitalist and I’ve long since lost any tolerance for hard drinking, but I find them refreshing and funny, which is helpful), and they certainly know things we need to know. And most of the permaculturists I know are more complex than that – Larry Santoyo was a California Cop, Toby Hemenway a scientist…. that is, they aren’t what they are widely perceived to be. But perceptions matter more than reality in some cases, and polling people who are not part of the club, the widespread perception I find is that permaculture is another hippie thing, to go with the “liberal left behind movement” reputation of peak oil. Whether it is fair or not, it matters. At a minimum, I’d be careful about the language associations and techniques one adapts – I don’t think that evoking meditation or trust building is a really good idea, say, for Transition Mississippi, or even Transition rural upstate NY if the goal is critical mass.
My main suggestion would be that at least in the US, Transition movements begin engaging religious communities on a serious level. I give a lot of talks at churches and synagogues and other religious communities. Many of those communities are already engaging in the nuts and bolts work of responding to an *existing* Long Emergency – they are doing the marrying and burying, the preaching of moralities, both productive and not. They run the food pantries, the battered women’s shelters, the emergency funds. They find clothing for the naked, food for the hungry and offer sanctuary and public appeals when violence breaks out. This is the nitty gritty work of responding to the crisis as it unfolds, and it must be done simultaneously with the building of the “better model.” I would argue that some of (not all) the best people to make the case for Transition to are the people who are already on teh ground in our cities and towns doing the work that desperately needs more hands.
My other suggestion is that permaculture groups seek out people who are *already* doing the work of sustainability, but don’t get any credit for it, because they are poor. Some do this, but the fact that these groups tend to be mostly made up of middle class white folks suggest to me that that asking the people who are already living in the city with no electricity, because the bill gets cut off every April, and the people who are already dumpster diving and making their livings of the waste of the city, and the people who are already stretching every resource because they have no choice, or urban farming because that’s just what you do where they come from ought to be invested in the local permaculture community. And it will not do to go among them as missionaries and teach them – let them teach you. You may have done the food stamp budget challenge one month – they’ve been doing it for years, and can tell you how to keep eating when the money runs out. I do not want to see something so valuable become the territory only of an affluent middle class who can afford to pay a few thousand bucks and take two weeks off work to take a design seminar.
The second question/critique I’d offer is this – is it possible to imagine permaculture responding successfully in situations not of peaceful exigency, of gentle shifts, but of violent ones? I think there is little doubt that some places will experience violent shifts – by this I mean war, civil or otherwise, rioting, vast increases in criminal activity and violence, and civic disruption. Some of those places may not be in the US . Recently Rob Hopkins and Richard Heinberg made public their correspondence about whether Transition should incorporate emergency preparedness into its training and work – it was an excellent conversation, and long overdue, but it inadvertantly exposed some real limitations to Transition’s planning - Hopkins’s conclusion was that perhaps it could begin to do so, and his first thought was that it could include camping and wilderness survival skills. As useful as these might be to many people, and as good a thought as that is, it struck me as a measure of how far off from dealing with a truly disastrous situation we are – it is true some people may retreat into woods as refugees, but far more likely to be needed are plans for quelling local violence, building emergency shelters and providing emergency medical services, and urban survival. Hopkins noted that he saw little way to address preparedness measures because they were traditional “top down” applications – ie, provided by the state. But if Transition’s bottom-up structures are overridden the moment there is a major crisis by existing top-down structures, then we can assume that we will no longer be living in a society governed by permaculture. I realize that the long term goal is for permaculture models to replace existing structures, smoothly and gradually.
The problem is lack of time – historically institutions that have done very well in tough times have been those that had something to offer people in exigency – that took up the work of dealing with the crisis. If a crisis comes before the town council or the local government is replaced by loving permaculturists, permaculturist movements must offer a compelling case that they can handle a rough transition better than existing infrastructure – that means heavy emphasis on preparedness. Religious institutions have known this – think how powerful the relief institutions and madresses of Islam, or Catholic social welfare structures have been in influencing local relationships to religious communities. Permaculture is not a religion, but it is perhaps, a faith at this stage – a faith that it has something to offer. But if tough times come rapidly and it has nothing to offer those already experiencing exigency, if its message is “wait, we’ve go the right technique, it just takes a while…” I think that permaculture will be rapidly pushed aside.
Naomi Klein’s superb _The Shock Doctrine_ observes the degree to which people cling to the familiar in tough times – and they cling even harder to those they believe were there for them. If we had a decade or more before the Long Emergency was thrust upon us, or if we could assure a smooth shift, and if the language of permaculture can be shifted (and I think it can be) to one that is more encompassing, that works as well in the US as it has elsewhere, I would be less uncertain about the value of some of the work being done now. But for most of us, our time to transition is measured in months or a couple of years at most – for a host of reasons. The economic crisis is on us now, and we know that the energy crisis is coming rather quickly alongside it. We have less than 5 years left from James Hansen’s deadline to begin making “radical and draconian” changes on the climate. We have so much to do and so little time.
I admire enormously much of the work of permaculture and permaculturists, and every time someone calls me one, I’m pleased and proud to be associated with that community. There is no group out there that does not have issues that need consideration and critique – and permaculture has more that I will attend to in my next post on this matter – the issue of how we will address the larger questions of feeding cities and whole populations, and the question of what degree of actual success Transition is having at this point are, I think, important questions to ask.
I find myself wanting permaculture to succeed – there are plenty of things to like about it, particularly as an economic model. And if Transition or Permaculture can’t do enough fast enough, I’m honestly dubious that they will succeed at all. If we had world enough and time, that would be great. But the models that will help us most are the ones that can work under circumstances of enormous disruption and difficulty as well as during a smooth shift.
Sharon
- permaculture
- Comments(77)
I think these are very important and useful criticisms.
My experiences with permaculture haven’t completely fit what you decribe — for example, the instructor for my permaculture training was a no-nonsense guy from Texas with a sensible haircut — but I do also see plenty of examples of unfortunately narrow cultural assumptions in the movement(s).
I’m starting to think seriously about kicking off a Transition initiative in my neighborhood, and this piece is definitely going to influence my approach.
P.S. if you like your permaculture with less pictures and more words, it’s hard to beat Holmgren’s Principles book (http://www.holmgren.com.au/frameset.html?http://www.holmgren.com.au/html/Publications/Publications.html)
I have recently come across a publisher who is extremely libertarian – right winger who is a real permaculture fan. His motto.
“Helping You Live The Life You Want, If Times Get Tough, Or Even If They Don’t”
Which is the same as your “Theory of Anyway”. His has been able express his concerns on peak oil, financial breakdown by using permaculture principles (food forests, rainwater harvesting, redundancy, etc) in a individualist non-political way.
http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/tag/permaculture
This is so very intelligent – and what a pleasure to read! But, essentially, doesn’t it point to a serious problem of all of us: preparedness, transition, thinking about a post-carbon future is supported and furthered by a small academically trained middle class elite. I am deeply skeptical about the “rest” of our societies coming on board.
Cronenberg (Germany)
Sharon, you have a way of articulating the thoughts that lurk in the muddy pools at the back of my brain.
Since we are experiencing catastrophic collapse in slow motion, we confuse ourselves by calling one thing permaculture or Transition and another thing emergency preparedness. The true difference is the time scale and the severity of the shock. Emergency training encourages us to shelter in place if we can. From what I understand of the Transition approach, it’s about making communities into places where people can shelter in place through major economic restructuring.
The emergency planning that most people will experience when it counts is actually bottom-up and decentralized. Hopkins is way off the mark. The “government” does not get involved until well after ordinary people have reached the ah shit stage. The most important emergency preparation is done by individuals and community groups.
I encourage all to take Community Emergency Response Training (CERT) and expand their ability to care for themselves, their families and their communities. There is absolutely nothing to stop people from combining those elements of permaculture that work for them with CERT and other disaster planning. Water storage, food growing in the garden, and extra blankets laid in for sheltering friends or family come to mind.
Disaster is a relative thing. One one end of the scale is Katrina. On the other is the personal disaster of being laid off with a family to support. My grandmother used to say “Plan for the worst, hope for the best”.
Shira in Bellingham, WA
Welllll….
I had a hard time with the post because I don’t see Permaculture and Transition Towns as being the same thing.
I do have my PDC. I am not involved in Transition Towns, in part, because of that same feeling of “New-Age” and lack of diversity. Further, Transition Towns focuses on ‘Towns’, while Permaculture is not dependant on scale in any way. Permaculture is applicable on a single city lot or balcony and is relevant all the way up to the national scale. So, while Transition Towns is presently working to enlist towns and communities to a kind of template that will serve as a foundation for transition, Permaculture, as I understand and practice it, is working on implementing practices based on the natural world as much as possible on every scale available. Permaculture embraces a diversity of practices based on the range of class, circumstance, climate….it’s being implemented all over the world.
Permaculture is less socially oriented than Transition Towns. You don’t need to be in a town to apply it, and the emphasis, right now, for Permaculture is on applying the principles on a more individual scale. We’re doing it with or without a community on board because it makes sense in our lives.
An example: My annual crops are in danger of failing for the second year in a row because of the weather pattern of a month of rain that has plagued us in Maine. We’ve had 7 rain-free days this month. 2 inches of rain in June is normal. I think we’re at around 9 inches this month. There is now a Late Blight alert for the region! How do I deal with this as all I’ve known about annual gardening is not based on such weather? Yes, I’m going to learn new, flexible techniques of gardening like fall and winter cropping (Permaculture strategy), but I must also point out that the perennial plantings (Core Permaculture principle) are doing quite well in this weather, so Permaculture practices give me a much greater resiliency as we go into an uncertain future, and there are Permaculture strategies that can work for everyone.
I could go on about what I see as the differences between TT and Permaculture, but I really don’t know a lot about TT….I’m more about applying the principles in my life, first, and then those principles will be adopted by others as they prove successful…..or not. It would be great if the town adopted Permaculture, but I don’t see that happening any time soon. The bottom line is: Permaculture makes sense in my life right here and now.
Tree
When I went through my PDC I thought exactly the same thing you are describing. I have done PLENTY of touchy feely courses beginning with a sensitivity training in 1985 and am thoroughly done with the *jargon*. I would come back every weekend from the design course and say to myself I love the principles but just give it to me straight. These great ideas will never be listened to by the mainstream if they don’t clean it up. I am open minded enough to not get turned off when I hear the words “paradigm shift” but most people are not. Totally RIGHT ON BABY!
Karen
Hello Sharon from WASH DC!
I dunno, some of these things made sense all along; we have elephant garlic, walking onion, Jerusalem artichokes, rhubarb, chives and parsley and the like all over the garden because we’re … umm … lazy! The roots get right down there, and one doesn’t have to hover over them with the watering hose, and predator insects don’t seem to explode all over them. And a variety of fruit trees all over the place. Shade; light-colored roof, passive water heater, greywater, no-dig, polyculture, year-round planting and harvest — because each of these things can be shown to be, in the right places at the right times, common sense.
So along come some people and say “Hey! this is a philosophy; I thought of it, I teach it, come to my $500.00 workshop… ” And dress it up in moderately neo-hippie graphics like something from Baba Ram Dass — Yes, I do find it off-putting…
Uh, but I’m not gonna kick anybody off the boat that needs all hands bailing because they do or do not wear tie-dye. Y’all can come over and have a work camp in my weed patch any day of the week, and I won’t even fuss if a camper says “permaculture” right out loud — ‘long as they gots calluses.
Tree, I guess I think, along with Risa, that a lot of what you are talking about isn’t really permaculture, except in the sense that it has been claimed under that name and identity. Woody agriculture existed long before permaculture did – Vegeculture, which involved perennial root crops and “farmed” forests existed all over Africa – the colonialists thought the Africans were bad farmers because they didn’t recognize it. The mixed orchard I inherited on my property, along with to the sugar maples weren’t permaculture plantings – they were common sense agriculture.
Don’t get me wrong, I like permaculture a lot, but Transition is an explicitly permaculturist movement, there are plenty of permaculturist groups out there – sometimes things are being done on individual scales, sometimes not, but the origins of Transition are permaculturist, and PDC design training has been using the crunchy stuff for a long time. I don’t think your critiques fully hold – again, not to critique the value of permaculture for individual people, but I just am not sure your experience represents permaculture as a movement – and it is a movement, with PR issues
.
Sharon
Heh, Karen and Risa.
I’ve not had that kind of experience of touchy-feely BS from the courses I’ve taken…at all! The two design courses I took ‘were’ both taught by Australians, so that might explain the difference.
Also, many of us Mainers are far too pragmatic for such nonsense, I think.
Community-building is important, but it has been a pretty small area of my Permaculture experience, so far. We have classes on things like: Grafting, beekeeping, herb spirals, ponds, swaling, mushroom cultivation, forest gardens, sheet mulching, foraging, food preservation, perennials for this climate, green buildings, water conservation strategies, etc. It’s all very practical.
Very sad the practical nature of Permaculture is being overshadowed by other elements…..
Thank you for raising these issues, and for the very thoughtful and respectful critique of the permaculture/transition models. I agree that the tone and the public face of Transition would not generally go over well, where I live in Pennsylvania. I’m certainly a lefty by the standards of where I live, and when I try to envision talking to an average group of people in my township, I know I just don’t have the vocabulary or the schtick to make these ideas seem compelling to them. The kumbaya thing would send them running for the doors.
I do think though that even as an atheist I could probably approach some local churches and have a worthwhile conversation about converting whatever lawns they happen to have to community garden plots. As much as I would like to be a Transition leader in my community, I just know that either I’m not there yet, or my community is not there yet. Or both. But gardens at church for the hungry would probably fly here. I guess that’s where I should be starting.
@Tree — I think the difference between permaculture and the Transition movement is right in your comment. Permaculture is a design system that can be applied at a bunch of different levels and situations, while the Transition movement is a well-defined approach for bringing a community to greater resilience in the face of peak oil & climate change.
Building permaculture-inspired systems on your property and beyond is a fantastic thing to do. What’s got me looking into the Transition movement more closely is that it contains some lessons about how communities have successfully organized themselves to work together on a bigger scale.
Hi Sharon,
If the origins of Transition are Permaculture, I will say that it is a branch of Permaculture now, but not Permaculture, itself. I’m not surprised the movement would have spin-offs- if it is a movement as you say. I wouldn’t know….I’m too busy putting the practices to the test, LOL!!!
I, and those Permie practitioners I deal with are much more the ‘adapting in place’ types. I think that’s why you are called a Permaculturalist.
As far as ‘inventing’ agricultural practices, I’d say Permaculture has done little to none. It’s more about finding the sustainable practices that work best for a given area and embracing those as part of a ‘toolkit’. It is believed that all of the east coast, to the plains, was cultivated forest for thousands of years. It’s not that those practices are invented by Permaculture, it’s more that they have to be rediscovered and redisseminated; since that old knowledge has now all but disappeared.
Permaculture has gathered many of the strategies for dwelling successfully in diverse places and calls the collection of various solutions ‘Permaculture’. It’s probably now too much to collect under one name and I suppose it’s time for the movement to begin branching out. As that happens, I’m sure we will see quite a few manifestations of the movement, but the adapting in place/practical agriculture branch is the one I’m familiar with and practice.
Thanks,
Tree
Sharon, this is a great post. I concur that some of the cultural trappings that often accompany the teaching of permaculture in the U.S.–and Transition Town is a great example of this–unduly limit its appeal. Bringing permaculture to the churches is a great idea. No social movement in America has had staying power that was not accompanied by a church wing (The War of Independence was accompanied by the Great Awakening; Progressivism was accompanied by the Social Gospel; Neoconservatism by Evangelical Protestantism; etc.). I would further add that permaculture is a natural for the broad Jacksonian, culturally Scots-Irish demographic that dominates Appalachia, the near South, and a broad sweep of the country straight West from there. The Reagan Democrats if you will, comprising at least a third of the population. They have always emphasized self-sufficiency, and despise both big government and big business. But nothing turns them off more than “visioning a common future” and standing in circles. I’m a university professor, so fit the stereotype, but I live in a Jacksonian blue-collar neighborhood where many garden for economic and self-sufficiency reasons. My experience suggests that, as one would expect, these folks are quite receptive to permaculture ideas, as long as one doesn’t use bizarre words like “permaculture.”
Thanks again.
David C.
Sharon,
I think these are excellent observations, and I take them seriously. My slogan when transition town or permaculture is involved is “leave your politics at the door”. We need to find common ground with the conservatives in our community and with all the people who have more conventional values even if they are not political.
I have been successful, I think, in reaching out to middle class people in my efforts to teach backyard food forests. I am also engaged in a dialog with the local fire departments all the way up to one of the chiefs on what permaculture has to offer in the way of strategies for fire prevention. They are being surprisingly responsive. I think that the way to succeed is to heed your advice and not present this as hippy or new age stuff, but as what permaculture is best at practical design ideas for living better. At times I have seen more respect for the cultural, religious and political beliefs of third world people than I have towards working and middle class Americans. we in Permaculture have to be very careful
I have had concerns about to much stuff designed to appeal to new folks and ex-hippies, but which leave large segments of the mainstream community out in the cold. But then I had my permaculture training from Larry Santoyo, who has funny rifts on eco-hipsters that make your points in a funny way.
There are other permaculture teachers and designers who also do not fall into the traps you are talking about. I got to watch 4th generation farmer/permaculturist Darren Doherty talk to a group of American farmers and have them eating out of his hands. he talked about permaculture principles, but couched it in terms they understood. That is to say how to make more profits on your farm while doing the right thing.
I recently read Gaias garden by Toby Hemenway. I nearly didn’t bother because of the title (and the fact it is North America specific, but i have no trouble swapping north and south, and wallaby and deer). I was pleasantly surprised that the book was not as ‘new agey’ as the title suggested(to me). maybe permaculture needs a makeover (and a reality TV show:) ). I agree it does seem to be the province of white middle class or neo-hippies. shame really.
Sharon, you have earned the right to criticize because of all the work you’ve done.
If you talk to permaculture people, you will find that they are aware of these issues (and others). I used to follow the permaculture mail lists and they were full of discussions like this. I have my own criticisms too:
http://cwo.com/~bart/essays/perm_err.htm
Keep the criticisms in perspective, though. Permaculture has kept the ideas alive in an incredibly hostile cultural environment. Permaculture has had almost no governmental or institutional support.
Can you point to any other movement or group that has done so much with so little?
If you go deeper into permaculture, you soon go beyond the cookie-cutter solutions into interesting and profound discussions. I’d point to David Holmgren’s work, such as http://www.konsk.co.uk/resource/holm2.htm
About hippies, the New Age, white middle class, I think I would say – so what? If they did the work when no one else was doing it, hooray for them.
I would also point out that the hippies were right, on issue after issue. Look back at what people were saying in the 70s — bio-regionalism, alternative energy, “war is not the answer,” the importance of community, the limits to growth, feminism, non-white cultures, socialism.
I think that glib blanket criticism of hippies is immature and historically ignorant.
I have feet in other cultures – redneck, techie, Marxist, entrepeneur, etc. – and as much as I love ‘em, I gotta say that they were wrong on most of the important issues, whereas the hippies and permaculture were right.
Bart Anderson / EB
Ha! I was already in love with Sharon Astyk but now I want to have her babies too. I rediscovered, talking with Tim and Maddy Harland at the London Transition Conference, that I had been writing about the frustration I felt at the knitted wholemeal sandals problem in Permaculture Magazine as far back as the early 1990s. My book ‘Organismics’ is an attempt to deal somewhat with the central issue Sharon discusses in this article: the ‘PR image’ (I would say ‘branding’) of permaculture. As part of this I try to show how organismic (ie permaculture) thinking can help enterprises to clean up their social and environmental acts while simultaneously – indeed, consequently – improving their economic performances too. I’m no capitalist either – in essence it’s just an exceedingly clumsy system, even in its own terms – it’s shit at making profits and maximising shareholder value as well as being genocidal – but we’ve really got to get Middle England, Middle America etc on board or it’s organic, fair-traded curtains for all of us. Rob W xxx
Whoops, sorry, forgot to mention: I’m from Bath, England
Sharon, you have earned the right to criticize because of all the work you’ve done.
If you talk to permaculture people, you will find that they are aware of these issues (and others). I used to follow the permaculture mail lists and they were full of discussions like this. I have my own criticisms too.
Keep the criticisms in perspective, though. Permaculture has kept the ideas alive in an incredibly hostile cultural environment. Permaculture has had almost no governmental or institutional support.
Can you point to any other movement or group that has done so much with so little?
If you go deeper into permaculture, you soon go beyond the cookie-cutter solutions into interesting and profound discussions. I’d point to David Holmgren’s work.
About hippies, the New Age, white middle class, I think I would say – so what? If they did the work when no one else was doing it, hooray for them.
I would also point out that the hippies were right, on issue after issue. Look back at what people were saying in the 70s — bio-regionalism, alternative energy, “war is not the answer,” the importance of community, the limits to growth, feminism, non-white cultures, socialism.
I think that glib blanket criticism of hippies is immature and historically ignorant.
I have feet in other cultures – redneck, techie, Marxist, entrepeneur, etc. – and as much as I love ‘em, I gotta say that they were wrong on most of the important issues, whereas the hippies and permaculture were right.
Bart Anderson / EB
(resubmitted this comment without URLs)
After reading the post and the comments that followed, I feel like I need to go out and get a “reasonable haircut”, start some chaw, and return to some of my “red neck” Southern Baptist Texan Deep South Virginia Protestant roots.
And while I perfectly understand the discomfort that many feel about “getting into circles”, I think it’s actually not so much the superficial “touchy feely” dynamics as the fact that many people don’t have the emotional intelligence or the stomach for it.
In a circle, there is no where to hide, everyone can see each other simultaneously, and everyone is absolutely an equal distance from the center.
As in equals, you know?
We don’t have to hold hands or chant Oms, but for brief periods of time, it is a good way to check in and get to know who we are cooperating with.
Because whether we call it Permaculture or Transition or Farming or Hydrology or Forestry or Environmentalism or Engineering or Politics or Economics or Physics or Chemistry or Biology or Fine Artistry or Design or Spirituality or Survival Response, it’s is very hard work. And it needs to be INTEGRATED AND APPLIED. Right now.
While there is a great deal of truth in many of the observations offered about the public relations problems of framing promotional themes and outreach intended to encourage participation in social change in simplistic “leftist liberal lingo”, let’s not forget the many inroads so-called “hippies” made contacting original peoples in their own home areas to learn how to build with natural materials, garden and farm using locally appropriate methods that respected existing cultural norms, respecting the water management practices of traditional peoples that also acknowledge the importance of respecting all living creatures and our relationship with them as human beings, the emphasis on art, music, dance, meditation, yoga, and a respect for all spiritual traditions including none at all if that’s the choice.
And while I openly admit that there are many shortcomings to “New Age” romanticized reminiscences…the belief that we can benefit from loving and respecting each other, liberal or conservative, theist or atheist, communist or capitalist, is as perennial as the sun, rain, soil, and the life that emerges from these precious resources.
Since the mid-seventies, I have lived in both so-called “main-stream” and “alternative” community circumstances world-wide. In the face of our collective challenges living on this planet at this time…we had better cooperate. Teamwork and a balance of hard work and creative play are the order of the day. Those of us who are willing and able, regardless of where we fall along the spectrum of class, political or gender persuasion, socio-economics, spiritual or otherwise, need to step up. I believe we humans and all life are up against it on planet Earth.
So if I show up with my hair tied back, I’ll also show up with a clear strong body mind and spirit, and some work clothes and gloves and various “tools”, along with a good sense of humor, and I’ll help out in whatever ways I am capable of. I would appreciate very much if those with more smarts and skills than I have would teach me what they can about being a more cooperative member of the community, whatever the practical scale.
I might even get a haircut.
((Warning, rough draft of a rant))
–Ive worked with permies, read up on it, and belonged to a guild for a bit.
its good to see an early draft of a permaculture criticism, as criticism is such a necessary part of the design process.
Tree’s comment touched on it, and I’ve been thinking this for awhile, I think its very dangerous for the brand/term “Permaculture” to exist, as creating a new word implies so much, when you are in fact only collecting a variety of new techniques, technologies from many sources and placing them under a new word. (I also think there should be a better effort to properly source the origins of these ideas). I think its also overly idealistic, as it implies that you can create a little bubble of Edenic utopia in this modern world. The truth is, it takes an amazing amount of work to be self reliant, much less an economic unit, and its very dangerous to even imply this by using the term for these techniques. Creating resilience on any scale is not easy and requires much more than redesigning the landscaping around your house.
Permaculture also implies that it provides bounty and surplus. As far as I can tell, it does not provide this in the form of ideas or sustenance. Instead, to me it seems to be a pyramid scheme of sorts. If it were true to its principles it would be more _open source_, and an internship wouldn’t COST money.
I feel like the term “Permaculture” is in itself implies a dangerous orthodoxy/centralization.
So in summary, it appears to offer nothing in itself aside from rebranding (as Tree admitted above), and only seems to offer, after several decades, a small scale life boat dream for folks trying to pull a Fukuoka.
This is not a well rounded critique, I know, but I think the essences of the points are at least very important to seriously consider outside of my rant.
Hi Sharon, great piece !
I live in rural Japan and often chat with old farmers and garteners here. And when I talk to these old folk who’ve lived the hard life and have used hand-tools and rick-shaw wagons to farm, I not only get taught about how hard the manual labor was (and still is), but that the most critical part of that system was to not run out of human will, to be psychologically stable. Not sustainable, just stable. ‘Permaculture’ & ‘Natural farming’ is, I feel, just a scratch on the surface.
ken
Reply to steph’s rant.
And your alternative is? Industrial agriculture? Doing nothing?
Who else is collecting techniques from other cultures, other periods of history, bringing them up to date? BTW, if you really look into permaculture literature, you will see they regularly source where the ideas come from.
You say that permaculture should be open source and training should be free. And who is going to pay for this?
As it is now, there are scads of permaculture books and magazines available at reasonable cost or free through libraries. A tremendous amount of information is available on the web.
If you want, there is high quality training available (at PDCs and elsewhere) at reasonable prices. I’ve taken the PDC and several other permaculture courses – the prices are less than comparable programs in other fields.
If you start tossing around accusations of “pyramid scheme”, please be prepared to back them up. Frankly, this is nonsense. People do not get rich on permaculture.
I’m not a permaculture teacher, but I do have a tremendous respect for people in the field.
Bart / EB
Markus, you may be right – perhaps what I lack is stomach, rather than patience – neither is that great a thing to lack. As I said, this may be my design flaw. That said, I guess I tend to think people know each other best at work – whether the work be hard labor or light – I know people by what they do, I suspect I’d like you a lot, and I certainly don’t think you need a haircut (I wear mine in a ponytail for that matter a good bit of time
. I guess I still want to insist – maybe because I’m a coward, or arrogant, or something, but maybe because I’ve stood in a fair number of circles – that you don’t get to equality by making a circle. Maybe some circles get there eventually, but there’s lots of equality made by people standing above and below one another, say, passing up the shingles from down below so the one above can nail them on, or sitting on the floor winding yarn passed down from the one at the wheel above. I have found, again, perhaps because of my flaws, that the circle ends up being shorthand for something we’d like to have, rather than doing the real work of getting there.
Actually, Bart, I can think of a lot of movements that have done so much with so little. Think about the gay and lesbian rights movement, as just one obvious example – they didn’t get government support either, and were dealing with much heavier degrees of hostility. The organic movement did the same. Again, I think permaculture is wonderful, but I don’t think permaculturists will win the “we accomplished the most with the least” prize anytime soon, unless they are successful at their present project and save the world – in which case, they win
.
One of the things that annoys me about permaculture is the tendency of permaculturists to say “oh, it isn’t really about….” The problem with the deep generalities of permaculture is that they are so general that everyone agrees with them “Care for people…care.for…” Scratch far down enough, and everyone will sign on. What matters about any philosophical school of thought – and I credit permaculture enough to take seriously its desire to be treated as philosophy – are the details of how it is represented, practiced and understood. I’m not sure that an answer that says one should go deeper can ever answer PR issues – the nature of public recognition is that it is shallow, it sees a few surface elements and makes them what people know about them. Thus, those shallow things that appear to matter more than they do actually, well, matter more than they do.
As for the hippies – I think you misread my post – good thing too, because I clearly pissed you off, since the criticism I didn’t make was “ignorant” and “immature” – I’d hate to think what would have happened if I had made that criticism. I didn’t engage in blanket criticism of hippies. What I said was that I didn’t think that a successful movement in the US could have as its public face a “hippie” and alternative lefty culture. I still don’t think that’s true – despite the rise of tofu, I don’t think that most of hippie culture, right as parts of it were (and let us not forget that some of it was just plain wrong – elements of the sexual culture, for example, or in many cases, the rejection of some of the values and traditions of the war and depression generation), can act as a lead in for the majority of Americans. The hippies were right about a lot of things – but isn’t really relevant to the PR end of this – it isn’t their rightness that is at issue, it is whether in a very short time it is worth engaging in a project that not only has to overthrow the whole growth paradigm, but also a cultural distaste by a large percentage of the population with being associated with alternative cultures. IMHO, the latter is a good bit lower on the priority list than the former.
Tree, I bet I know who your teachers are, and yeah, they aren’t fluffy in their approach – I’ve only met them the once, but I really liked them
. I’m not criticizing permaculture for not inventing new agricultural techniques at all – and I’m grateful to them for reigniting interest in them.
Rob, I’m sorry, but I already take a lot of shit for the number of babies I have – you can’t have mine – I can’t take the PR hit
.
Sharon
Superb article. Really corroborated and articulated my experience teaching this past year where I found myself so aghast at the insular, conformist, apolitical and downright naive beliefs of the next generation permies that I literally had to walk away from the course and indeed from the movement generally. I am still processing what happened to me, so profound and shocking was the depth of the feeling, and this article has come as close to explaining what came over me as anything I’ve been able to come up with.
I too had come to a place of being physically unable to stomach another “circle” of shared feelings, interminable Omm’s and rehashed 70′s spirituality amongst a group of people so narrowly homogenous in their dress, language, philosophies and outlooks that anything that was remotely different ( even things as superficial as clothing choices) was met with slit-eyed suspicion and frowning disapproval. It was disheartening in the extreme and unbearably uncomfortable – not to mention sad.
I think the line that sums it up best is the author’s first line following the preamble and caveats:
” That said, however, I admit to some doubts about the political viability of permaculture as a solution for our collective crisis,”
There seems to be widespread agreement within the movement that permaculture should be rigorously separate from politics and that it is somehow possible to create islands of fruit tree heavens in what will be a hellacious sea of social, economic and political turmoil. And that thinking, more than any, is not only dangerous, it is guaranteed to drive PC to the margins and eventually off the map….
Seems to me that if we want to transition to a sustainable reality, then it would make a lot more sense to see everyone across the board get marginally Greener than to see a tiny exclusive self-referential elite living idealized permie lives in total back-woods-but-smugly-ponytailed obscurity .
Thanks for posting….
Green Regards,
Claude William Genest
- Deputy Leader Green Party of Canada.
- Creator, Producer, Host of 2008 Emmy Nominated “Regeneration – The Art of Sustainable Living”.
- Teaching Permaculture and Whole-Systems Design for the University of Vermont.
- Founder, President Green Mountain Permaculture Institute of Vermont, LLC .
- Al Gore Trained Presenter of “An Inconvenient Truth”
While I don’t agree with Bart in every respect, I also don’t agree with Steph’s idea that permaculture is a pyramid scheme, and I think that’s very much an unfair criticism. I’m sure Bart would claim that I just don’t understand permaculture enough to fully appreciate it, but to the extent that I do understand it, I got most of my education for free, from books – most of them available at my local library. I have reason to know what the authors of those books get paid – most of them publish with presses like mine – Storey or Chelsea Green or New Society – and those places max out their advances at 8-10K most of the time. Think how long it takes to write a book like Gaia’s Garden or for that matter, Dave Jacke’s amazing volumes – for six months to two years of full time work, you might get 10 grand.
As for the classes, well, I’d be a right hypocrite to criticize anyone else for charging for their time – I expect to get paid for my classes, and I would imagine PDC teachers like to eat just like I do. The two classes I’ve actually taught at both had sliding scale admissions, and cost less than tuition at a university design class by a good bit.
On the other hand, I also disagree with Bart’s claim that permaculturists are the only group that are reclaiming old knowledge – the folk schools and the agrarians existed before permaculture. I know lots of people doing that work who have literally never heard the word “permaculture.” I’m grateful to permaculturists for doing it – but there are a lots of ways to travel the same basic path, and I don’t think there’s any need to overstate one system’s merits.
Sharon
Ok, folks, maybe I did it badly, but could we all just get this one straight. I did not say that hippies were bad and should all get haircuts – I couldn’t possibly say anything that made me sound that much like Archie Bunker. I didn’t say that circles were bad, just that I don’t like them and I know some other people don’t either. I did not praise standing in hexagonal tiers. I certainly didn’t say that permaculturists were all insular and conformist, or that I do not wear hippie flower skirts sometimes. I did not say that hippies were all wonderful and got everything right, and I want to be one (does any child want to be what one’s parents already were?). I did not say that I would like to drink the blood of Michael Jackson in the full moon. Perhaps the failure of nuance was partly mine, but I don’t think it all was – so instead of assuming that I agree with all your prejudices on this subject or any other, you’ll have to accept that your prejudices belong to you, and I’ve got mine
. Instead, let’s focus on what I actually did say.
That was “I would like to drink the blood of Ben Bernanke under the full moon.” Got it now?
.
Interesting essay and discussion.
I’m in kind of an unusual place in this conversation. Though I have a PhD in chemistry, I’ve been married for 20 years to a man with a 2 year electrician degree from a technical college who spent his working life as a factory worker or water meter reader. Perhaps I have a perspective to offer.
It’s been pointed out by Howard Zinn among others that generally speaking, the less money people earn, the more they tend to hold what have been called “left” views. My experience has been that my DH’s working-class family and colleagues tend to see through the dominant (media-driven) culture more than did/do my PhD-bearing colleagues and middle-class family members. Similarly, although college students tend to get the credit for Vietnam War protesting, more protesters were working class, especially veterans of the war, and arguably they were the more successful at pressuring for an end to that war.
I’ll argue that if most of the people doing and promoting permaculture are white middle class, and if most of the people in their courses are as well, that’s because white middle (and especially upper) class people need to learn it more. They are the people who have accepted the endless-energy and endless-growth ideas the most thoroughly, and pushed them the most successfully, and the ones who will fall the fastest and hardest as we continue through the “change”. The people I’ve met who live with less money already have a pretty good grasp of the principles and are doing their best to live by them, even if they don’t use the language. Since I started practicing voluntary simplicity (by now it’s no longer voluntary as I can no longer get a job in chemistry), I have been better able to experience and grasp what is wrong with the dominant culture and started to live in a way that I think, hope, is more ethical and sustainable.
The bigger problem I have with permaculture is what I see as an exclusionary tendency among those who’ve passed the PDC. I haven’t taken it, and I won’t, because I cannot afford it and I don’t think I’d learn anything more that I can’t from the books and magazines already out there, and from trying things on my own. But because I haven’t taken the PDC, my understanding is that I can’t call what I’m doing as permaculture. That doesn’t really make sense, if only because by using the word, I can point people in a direction to find good information. So I have to use other language when I talk with people. That might be a good thing, because then I need to listen to, and learn from, them. We set up more of a conversation among equals that way. Still, it seems to me that if you want the concept to spread more, then encourage people to talk about what they are doing and use the word to describe what they are doing when it is appropriate to do so.
To make the transition we need to start by facing the realities of life, develop thought about our situation and take action based on our analysis. Every person and every group in the community is confronted with making the transition. My experience of the transition town movement is that their leaders tend to exclude individuals, groups and ideas that might soil their vision of the future. Those excluded are political, religious and military groups and those labelled as doomers, rightwingers, and uninformed. The challenge for the transition town movement is to become inclusive of all of the community and all the experience, skills and ideas that are on offer.
I have dropped out of my transition group. The large and successful biodiversity restoration project I lead, was not recognised by the group. I also think that my 30 years in the military, knowledge of group dynamics and group leadership did not accord with the Gospel according to Rob.
Paula Hewitt,
Reading your comment, I got this vision of Walter Brennan in his role on the old, old TV show, The Real McCoys. That, or an ensemble show like Picket Fences, Matlock or Ally McBeal based in a community that happens to be going Transition Town – that would be a way to introduce Permaculture and Transition. Longer term, maybe a Disney channel program to follow Hannah Montana.
As a minimum, I am surprised there aren’t a few YouTube channels on Permaculture and Transition.
Sharon,
Your criticisms are interesting about diversity. In a time when Cowboy Action Shooting and touring motorcycle conversions to trikes are growing businesses, even this summer, it may be important to remember that Yoga is a religion, as well as having been warrior conditioning. As someone that keeps livestock, I take the responsibility to keep me and mine safe – as safe as I can – seriously. Considering the likely dangers and how to deal with them has to be one of the first responsibilities of one who would make a home, or to lead. And as you say, disruption, aggression, and violence have to be expected as the current infrastructure frays and unravels.
You hit that nail on the head Sharon.
Any of these events with the words ‘visioning’ or ‘nurturing’ immediately put me on edge. I’m comfortable growing a carrot but I can’t stand people who have ‘grown their business’. I’m sure that at least 80% of people who hear the word ‘permaculture’ have no mental image. I want to learn about companion planting and food gardens in hardiness zone 12 (currently) and 2 (‘home’); I don’t need to bury cowshirt in a horn for a year and sprinkle it over my land naked under the first full moon after the vernal equinox.
And I thought I WAS one of those pony-tailed hippies (in spirit; although few airlines appreciate that look in their flightcrew…).
So where do the beer-drinking car-racing good ol’ boys fit in? Because they are half the population and possibly more than half the problem, and I didn’t see any “Holden V8 Racing” bumper stickers at yesterdays ‘community garden visioning day’.
If I lived in Europe I would try to get a group to fix up an old castle – remember what they were for?
Thanks for responding, Sharon, and thanks to commenters for their reactions.
I should mention that I spent about a year investigating permaculture, arguing it back and forth in mind, and getting exposure to dozens of teachers, before I felt comfortable calling myself a permaculturalist. I wrote a long essay on my doubts and discoveries
http://cwo.com/~bart/essays/perm_err.htm
Two of the myths about permaculture I identified were:
1. Myth: You do permaculture with groups which are labeled “permaculture”
2. Myth: Permaculture knowledge is labeled “permaculture”
I think some of the commenter above were thinking along the same lines.
There’s no problem with critical thinking – but what I would suggest is that people not stop with a surface impression of permaculture.
There’s a LOT to permaculture, and it takes awhile to understand the many different aspects to it.
If you are bummed out by one PDC or one permaculture teacher, then look around for others. There is a tremendous diversity, and what works for one person may not work for another. And before you spend the money on a PDC, for heaven’s sake, do some checking on the particular course and instructors. I drove to another state in order to take a PDC from Toby Hemenway.
Personally, I don’t think the PDC is that big a deal. It’s can be an intense, life-changing experience for some people. For people like Sharon who have been living this stuff, it’s more a confirmation of what they already know, plus exposure to some new ideas.
The most powerful idea for me is the way that permaculture can include and relate the different aspects of sustainability, the different techniques and folk knowledge. I haven’t found any other way of thinking like it.
The other aspect which is strange and powerful is the network of permaculture people – it’s amorphous, informal, hard-to-characterize, slippery. It’s very different than the formal organizations that we are accustomed to. I found out from David Holmgren that it was designed that way on purpose.
About hippies, Sharon. what I’m pointing out is that hippie-bashing is a cultural phenomenon, like red-baiting. By engaging in it, people proclaim their identification with the dominant culture by kicking against a weak minority. How much courage does it take in present day America to complain about hippies and New Age?
As a culture we’ve never come to terms with what the hippies, radicals and counter-culture was all about. It’s a black hole in our collective psyche.
BTW, No, no, no, I’m not pissed at you Sharon. You are one of my favorite PO writers, with whom I agree 90%. I do get excited at times though!
all best, Bart / EB
Thanks for voicing those ideas Sharon and great to read the comments.
Being involved in a Transition Initiative myself from its conception I can understand some of the problems with PR mentioned by Sharon. Luckily my work in a student union and amateur knowledge of marketing taught me to translate my ideas into concepts understandable and palatable for various audiences.
I won’t start off my presentations with visualizing THE FUTURE with a group of white, elderly mostly conservative folk from a rich neighborhood but will talk with them about the connections between their lives, families and the nations energy and food security and ask them what options they’ve got to act individually and as a community. The talk ends up with generating interesting ideas and staying in contact without alienating a potential collaborator-or they don’t find I’ve got anything to offer but thats my problem or the ideas.
Transition/permaculture – is a toolkit – as it happened some people found it works very well in their cultural/geographical locations – others will use bits, add bits or leave it for something else.
As for the Gospel of Rob:) I think he smiles when he reads it again and again. He and his collaborators had an idea, tried it, wrote about it and do it and whenever someone has something to add (criticism is welcome) it is being discussed (check his blog) but it doesn’t mean that they won’t argument for their approach or will instantly change course.
@David C
I agree don’t use bizarre words:)
Ideas start with the Innovators and they might be only palpable to them at the beginning. Then come people who copy, translate, re-mix, reinvet the language and idea and it is more accessible to a wider audience. This is a stage I think permaculture and Transition might be so if they (or bits of it) are found valuable they will be translated for a wider audience.
The Cheerful Disclaimer from the Transition Town website confirms this is an experiment which the initiators don’t know if it will work. That’s my approach to life- try it out – use what works for you and it is great to see this article and in the comments that there is still a diversity of opinions.
Although there is a structure offered to doing permaculture or Transition both are such a re-mix of other ideas that I can say that there are as many approaches as there are practitioners of them.
What a great discussion!
I am with Kamil, permaculture is a toolkit and everybody’s toolkit is a little different. My toolkit has paint in it because I am an artist who teaches in public schools. I use the the principles everyday in my teaching, in my garden and in my relationships.
Yes, there is a serious lack of diversity, and there was a whole lot of singing in a circle at my PDC that I didn’t really enjoy, but my PDC was amazing. In fact there was an ongoing discussion about all the problems of diversity and access though out the course. We started developing a children’s course ( made affordable by a very can do participant who helped raise money so low income folks like me could include my kids) that was all about accessible language and inclusion. It is a start and I was very impressed at how ideas translated into action very quickly. To me that can be one of the most powerful strengths of permaculture, knowledge into action.
Also, on the hippy/permaculture thing, I see a lot more punk DIY sensibility in my permaculture world.
Hi Sharon: I don’t think that you did a bad job on this post. In fact, I think you really articulated something that I’ve been turning over in my mind; the fact that both the hippie Pagan permie homesteaders and the gun-toting Christian bunker-digging survivalists have a lot to learn from each other.
I’m stereotyping and overgeneralizing rather badly, here, but the permie/homesteader types need to realize that their community gardens may need some defending and that the Transition may get quite ugly and unpleasant, and the bunker-digging survivalists are going to need to learn how to buld communities once they emerge from their bunkers and grow food once the MREs run out.
Having friends and reading blogs on both ends of the spectrum, I like to think that I’m cherrypicking the best ideas from both in my own preparations. And this being exposed to both the Rawlesians and the Permies has also made me realize that they aren’t that different; they may have ahold of different parts of the elephant, but when you get right down to it, they are all about the same thing; making sure that they and their families and loved ones weathering the coming difficulties in as much dignity and comfort as they can, and survive to help make a better aftermath.
Bart, I guess I feel like the cool, funky permaculture community is neat – I like it. But I also think that the agrarian community is neat. I think that the Christian homesteaders are neat. I think the folk school people are neat. I think the old farmers near me are neat. I think the local Hmong community is neat. That is – I find really wonderful stuff in a lot of places, some labelled permaculture, some not. I think your point about permaculture functioning in a lot of places is a good one.
But I also find the slipperiness of the definition of permaculture kind of annoying, quite honestly – the sum of it seems to be “if it is good and it works it is permaculture, if it doesn’t, well, that’s not permaculture and we’re not responsible.” I think in terms of intellectual rigor, permaculturists can do better than that
. More importantly, I think “don’t just focus on the public face of permaculture” when the issue at hand is how the public face of permaculture shapes the issue is, ummm…not useful criticism. I’ve spent a *lot* of time around permaculture, reading about permaculture, at courses, doing work with permaculturists – and I’ve got an email box full of emails saying “but in a deep way you don’t really get it” from permaculturists. Well, a. I’ve yet to see someone really give a deep analysis in a short time that actually teaches me something new and that isn’t so general that everyone wouldn’t agree with, and b. if my time on permaculture isn’t enough to “get it” you really do have a PR problem – surface perceptions matter.
As for hippie baiting – I guess I come at this differently than you do. There’s hippie baiting and there’s hippie baiting – just as there are critiques of Marxism from inside and outside. I literally grew up in the hippie communities, they are at least some of my parents and family – I don’t feel like I have to apologize for making the occasional joke about grey ponytails and hippie skirts, or act like that makes me Joe McCarthy
.
Sharon
I guess what’s interesting to me about the criticisms of this post is that they don’t seem to actually address the political question – presumably, even if Transition or permaculture is right, we also want them to be *successful* – and that means attracting as many people as possible. Even if my perceptions are totally unfair, is it not possible that there’s a PR issue to be addressed here because people are getting unfair impressions,
I’ve also seen no one from the permaculture movement offer any suggestions about how permaculture enables us to adapt to violence, civil unrest, high crime rates and other not-terrifically unlikely disruptions. Is there work out there, say, on the permaculturist response to violent societies?
Bart often reminds me in comments not to assume political stability. Ok, I’m not
.
Sharon
As a registered independent and someone who thinks for himself – and is therefore officially in the “none of the above” camp (a very small outfit, I’m afraid) – I believe that the following propositions would be responded to well by those on the right, as well as those on the left and in various places in-between:
-Live within your means.
-Waste not, want not.
-Work hard, make the best use of your time and what you have (especially your land).
-Preserve what you’ve got (especially the family homestead), and pass it on intact to the next generation.
-Be a good neighbor and a good citizen in your community
-Be constructive, not destructive.
I believe that every principle of “permaculture” could be built upon these foundations. It is just a matter of different emphasis, different packaging, different presentation.
This post, and the comments, are wonderful! What a juicy discussion.
Steph – as for why internships cost money, it’s because (in the words of a permaculture teacher of mine, a mainstreamish fellow with a “reasonable haircut”), “Interns are work!” Supervising interns is work. A lot of times, it’s more work to supervise an intern than to just do the job oneself.
And perhaps more to the point, an internship is giving you valuable skills that should increase your earning power or your self-reliance (or both). I always figure that if I’m getting valuable skills, I should be the one paying. Every internship I’ve done (and every permaculture design course I’ve taken) has paid off in dividends.
Ken – I’ve lived in Japan too, and like you, have spent many hours talking with old folks in the country. Time spent with older Japanese folks convinced me that a stable, robust will trumps even a hoe or shovel as a survival tool.
And the other prime survival tool, for us collectively, is respect and tolerance for other viewpoints. We don’t have to like everyone; we do need to practice respect, tolerance, compassion for all. If we can’t do that, then all the fruit trees and rainbarrels in the world won’t save us. If we CAN do that, then the power of our cooperation will render the logistical and technical barriers trivial.
As I see it, those “Form a Circle” roundups at permaculture courses are an attempt, however clumsy and artificial it may feel at times, to help people experience a sense of common ground and feel connected with one another. Connecting and finding common ground is a lost skill; we need to regain it and make it a part of everyday life.
Building community (by which I don’t mean “intentional community” such as eco-villages, but more broadly, cooperative connections among people) is not airy-fairy, and is no less practical or essential to human survival than digging in the dirt. Everyone who’s brought a tomato to a neighbor, or had someone offer them a ride home when they were too exhausted to walk any further, or thrown a benefit party to cover a friend’s medical bills, knows this.
Without community, permaculture is just another flavor of landscaping (albeit a bright-green flavor).
– jenny nazak, Austin Permaculture Guild
This is very helpful. Much food for thought and an important discussion to open up. Thank you.
For quite a few years I’ve been trying to determine what call to live within limits might appeal to a broad range of contemporary humans on its own terms, not by association with any particularizing fashions, customs and/or political positions. I have something to share. More in a moment…
Also a friend of permaculture, I believe it does provide views of how many will conduct life within limits, but I do not believe it is the call that will bring people in (the necessary) droves. Far too few can do that 0 to 60, because, in a sense, most are nowhere near 0.
In parallel, woundedness is part of what slows entire populations’ approaches to resilience and sustainability, not the whole story. Diminishment of persons by enforced disintegration and numerous isms are other parts that need proportional attention.
My synthesis is somewhat embedded in material at my Web site and is emerging more boldly just now at http://www.interdependencedesign.com. I wish there was a month of material there, so I’ll add material frequently for a while. Please come and please comment/discuss.
@Sharon –
“I’ve also seen no one from the permaculture movement offer any suggestions about how permaculture enables us to adapt to violence, civil unrest, high crime rates and other not-terrifically unlikely disruptions. Is there work out there, say, on the permaculturist response to violent societies?”
Though not a permaculturist in name, I think John Robb does a great job on this (at http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/ ). He makes a consistent argument that building resilient communities is our best bet for dealing with current and future security threats.
Robb discusses the connection between his work and the Transition movement at http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2009/04/rc-journal-transition-towns-as-a-means-to-participative-problem-solving.html
Keep the deep thoughts coming Sharon. You got very close to the real issue this time, you just need one more step. It is all too easy to take efforts such as Permaculture or Transition and wiggle them into our comfort zone. By definition, there can be no smooth transition through rough times. Still, you touch on what this whole mess with Peak Oil, Climate Change and Financial Collapse is really about when you notice a tendency for “immersed in alternative culture”. No one likes to admit that the culture they grew up with is flawed, because it is so close to how most people identify themselves. Yet our times are in fact a consequence of our predominant culture, and we will need a serious change to our culture to come through it. A “mass movement” can only take place within a cultural context, and the vast mass of people in the developed world are still totally addicted to consumerism and the culture of corporate life, and perhaps most are likely currently dependent on it for their very lives. Transition Towns have some appeal because they are not asking anyone to seriously change their culture, at least not yet, just make small changes a little at a time. Permaculture is bound to attract fewer people because it would be very difficult to practice it effectively without much more substantial changes in daily culture. This may be why it seems to attract people who are already alternative thinkers or who live on the cultural fringe. You can’t make sweetened ice tea less sweet by adding more sugar, and we will not come through these changing times by using the same tools that created them, and this especially includes our culture. I would love to hear your thoughts on how our culture molds our predicament from your point of view, and what effects changes in culture might have.
I didn’t have time to read all of the comments so if this has already come up, I apologize.
I wonder if there’s anything to be gained from the idea of ecological succession here. Could the American middle class, white, progressive/left crowd be analogous to the disturbed soil favored by pioneer plants or to the pioneer plants themselves?
If so, the solution to Sharon’s discomfort (which I very much understand) might be to make sure the transition to the next stages of succession actually take place. Getting started is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for systemic change.
How do we make sure the growth into the equivalent diversity of a healthy, mature ecosystem does not get short circuited by the American tendency to standardize and arrest the development of things in their adolescence?
Hi Sharon,
Very pertinent post, and very thoughtful as always. You have a special knack, as one commenter mentioned, of discussing the un-discussable.
That said… my perception is that the hippie crunchy look and feel may only apply in the US / UK / Canada. Many projects include PDC courses for local people who need to maintain a site once it’s up and running: Macedonia, Jordan, Belize, Honduras projects that I know about. Personally, I could care less whether the Confederate Flag, NRA and Sarah Palin-saluters come to my PDC. But if that’s who comes, I need to find a way to facilitate learning for whoever’s there. My experience with the 3 PDCs I’ve been involved with so far is that there’s a lot more diversity professionally and economically than what’s suggested here, though not racially or ethnically.
I think you are right that Permaculture will not become a mass movement. Transition is the closest thing so far, but its far from a mass movement. On the other hand Victory Gardens were hardly a mass movement in times of peace, so will see what happens when it starts coming down for real.
And I also agree that there ought to be more in the PDC to address social and economic organization. But then there we are on the left again. Perhaps there’s some strange marriage of Cultural Creatives and Traditionalists that can overcome the Modernist hegemony (thinking outloud here) since we may share a moral imperative that the Modernists seem to lack.
-Shrimppop
Sharon: “no one from the permaculture movement offer any suggestions about how permaculture enables us to adapt to violence, civil unrest, high crime rates and other not-terrifically unlikely disruptions. Is there work out there, say, on the permaculturist response to violent societies?”
Permaculture emphasizes community which is the key. Anything you can do to increase social cohesion is going to help with all the problems you mention. This is not touchy-feely, but a historical truth.
People seem to want magic solutions – a pill, a weapons system, a 12-step program that will protect them against all possible dangers. That’s exactly the mindset that prevents a reasonable strategy.
There is an illusion that gun-toting rednecks have the answer. Part of my family is redneck, and I’m here to tell you that current redneck culture is pretty dysfunctional. I love ‘em, but don’t listen to their advice on diet, financial planning or guns as solutions to social problems.
To learn about civil defence and emergency planning, it’s better to go to the books, training programs and institutions in the community that do this sort of thing. Like Kurt Vonnegut, I’m a big fan of volunteer fire departments.
Bart / EB
I’m reminded of an old Professor of mine who once sat on an admissions committee, and pointed out that most of the admissions essays he received told a moral story, about how a young person had a difficult experience and overcame it, and then learned a moral lesson. He then observed that the problem with the essays was that in most cases, the moral was one that didn’t necessarily proceed from the experience, nor was it necessary to have the experience to learn something so obvious – thus, lots of essays about how a brush with illness taught them to “love their family.” In some cases, it may have been the case that the young person in question didn’t already know this, or didn’t know it in the same way, but in most cases, it seemed mostly to be the application of a moral to a set of circumstances, without any deep connection between them. I don’t think we could possibly disagree that strong communities are better able to withstand disruption – but that’s not saying that much.
I’m not looking for a magic pill, nor do I think rednecks have the solutions, and I like volunteer fire departments too. But I think 27 books on forest gardens and permaculture (the number I can pull up on a lit search) may be enough, cool as they are – perhaps it is time to apply permaculture principles to emergency services and social response, or say, to eating the hazelnuts and jerusalem artichokes as a main portion of your diet. I will, of course, do my share on that subject, but I’d love not to be working solo.
Sharon
Sharon, and the rest of the blog…
It would be great to meet you all.
It is good “social fertilizer” to have creative conflict, disagreement that leads to better questions asked…and the surprising rediscovery of common ground.
Our common ground is much more inclusive…and even as we are using language to communicate with each other about the ways we don’t agree, the ways we do agree can be defined and comon interests can be shared.
Creativity often entails some heat, friction, and some sparks. That’s how we start a fire, yes?
The trick is to control it and use it as an ally.
I currently live in an 8,000 acre area of N.E. New Mexico that was leveled by a fire storm. An ancient old growth forest was reduces to soot and ash.
The experience of participating in rebuilding shelters using a blend of “sustainable” traditional Pueblo methods and a spectrum of so-called “modern” design and materials has been humbling and empowering both.
Using concepts from forestry, agriculture, life sciences, biology, organic gardening, natural building, and what we are now calling permaculture methods to reduce erosion, co-create restorative water shed, planting trees, developing terraced gardens, managing an ancient perennial spring. Much of what has been done in the aftermath of the fire has endured and bloomed…some of it has resulted in some junk piles, toxic waste, and an assortment of unfinished business.
It’s incredibly hard work. Seasonally and on various occasions year round since the 70′s, I have lived by choice in a tent during Spring and Summer and a mud-straw-wood hogan during winter. The community work ranging from the gardens to the kitchen to the outhouses and composting toilets, to the roads, to the spring fed water system to the solar electric system to the books to the cottage industry/community business….the list goes on and on…is challenging and at times almost beyond endurance. It is all embedded in a larger scale global society that is largely industrial and heavily influenced by military and business interests.
We have billions of human beings living in urban environments. This is a reality. All I need to do is spend some time near my home town of Santa Barbara, California and travel the 405 Interstate to the LA International Airport in order to get some “reality therapy”. The sheer momentum. A balance to my romatic ideals and the longing for a perfect paradise. Synthesis. Balance. What is.
An interface and collaboration between urban and rural settings will be an important ongoing partnership. Improved relations between men and women will help. More daily living interaction between the very young and the very old will contribute intangibles. And yes, as we have been discussing…the cooperation among many persuasions of human personality types and persuasions of culture and consciousness will be our strength.
We still have to use the highway to pick up most of our organic food off of a Mack truck. Though the soar panels provide about 95% of our year-round electricity needs, and a spring provides 100% of our water needs for up to 200 people on 100 acres…we are not even remotely “off the grid”. There is nowhere to hide. It’s not about heading for the hills…it’s about learning to live well using less energy, creating enclaves of improved subsistence and local/regional sufficiency, and thereby being able to speak to “Power” with a sense of solidarity. It’s a work in progress….a process, and we honor each other by being open to this dialogue.
This is no dress rehearsal. This is the real deal.
Let’s not loose sight of the need to play, and dance, and create our own art and music, and breaking bread together, and laughing and having fun….even as we work very hard to turn the tide.
Sharing is good.
Andrew Jones has been doing emergency services and social response lectures from the permaculture design perspective here in NYC. That is where I first heard about CERT training.
I also find the “circles” annoying, but can see it’s purpose if not over done. I also feel anxiety when I find out that the food will be “vegetarian” or I have to do “yoga”.
Having promoted a couple PDCs, I can say that not everyone pays full tuition and some pay nothing at all. If I could leave the day job and teach free PDCs I’d do it, but our culture says I have bills to pay. Ultimately, somebody needs to pay the property tax, building permits, for food (laws make this expensive when the public is involved), sanitary services, etc.
If you want to take a PDC and can’t afford it, offer to help find students (full paying ones). The more full paying students there are, the more likely there will be a class to attend in the first place. Another common strategy is to volunteer at a course, then take the next course for free. Ask for help and offer something specific you are good at doing that would help make the course successful. The experience is worth the effort, but not when students that you gave a free pass show up with a fancy car and butler & laundry services (an obvious exaggeration, but I hope the point is made).
Somehow, there are things that occur to you at the PDC that don’t occur from just reading about it. Then again, maybe it was me just not getting a few things. I took my first PDC with Geoff Lawton and organized a second with Larry Santoyo and Toby Hemenway (last Summer).
Let’s have a PDC at Sharon’s place.
I agree with you completely Sharon about applying permaculture principles to social problems.
This is probably the biggest challenge there is.
My personal interest is to help create a journalism equivalent of permaculture: community-centered, multiple-voiced, tolerant, open, as cheap/free as can be.
Bart / EB
My experience is that permaculture is going mainstream, and is also moving into all economic and ethnic echelons, slowly but surely.
Our organization, The Permaculture Guild, just got done presenting permaculture at Tuskegee University – this was very well received. In discussion is a community garden demonstration site in a low income neighborhood as one of the projects coming out of this.
We are organizing a design course at Pine Ridge Lakota Reservation this fall. Our recent design course at the Earthship in Florida was a fairly representative mixture of ethnic groups, ages and backgrounds.
Yes, I agree that much more of this is needed, and Sharon, I think you have a valid point, but I wanted to provide some information illustrating that there is change happening and I believe this trend is broadening. When in Los Angeles, I worked with economic and business alliances towards sustainable solutions and they were receptive and interested in permaculture principles. I also worked with an urban high school permaculture project in South Central. There are urban projects in a number of major cities, low income areas.
Transition Towns focuses on peak oil and climate change which have become controversial political issues and do not have to be front and center to promote the very practical, common sense ideas in permaculture – which can be used virtually in any situation. I believe Transition Towns will continue to evolve and find diverse ways of approaching the situation, as they address and interact with mainstream organizations such as governments and business interests. It is already happening in some areas.
It can be an interesting and perhaps even painful dance and balance between personal integrity and finding a way to express permaculture concepts to an audience whose paradigm might be as far away from sustainable or regenerative as one could imagine. Not everybody wants to do this, and one solution we have is to get a diverse and capable enough crowd to our courses that we train more who do.
I appreciate Larry Santoyo’s (one of my permaculture teachers) focus on “Urban Permaculture” – his classes have some diversity, but in LA, that is what one would expect. We are also focused in that direction as urban design can be such a huge challenge. I agree that disaster planning and planners need to be an integral part of the design process.
I would put myself in the catagory of “radical” (basic, pervasive, favoring major changes, growing from the root – derivation comes from the word meaning “root”) – my partner calls us “permaculture nut jobs”
. I am fond of many of the things you mention are common amongst permaculturists, but I am also willing to try to find a common ground that will allow those who are in many cases doing the most damage – mainstream organizations and large population centers – to access these solutions, hopefully in a way that most encourages them to actually use them.
Cory Brennan