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	<title>Comments on: Permaculture Future? Part II</title>
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	<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/</link>
	<description>Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess.</description>
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		<title>By: shalinna</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-88165</link>
		<dc:creator>shalinna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jan 2012 20:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-88165</guid>
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		<title>By: Algernon</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-55618</link>
		<dc:creator>Algernon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Sep 2011 18:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-55618</guid>
		<description>Hey there! This can be my first comment in this article therefore i i would like to provide a quick shout out and let you know I actually take pleasure in looking through your content. Are you able to recommend any other blogs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey there! This can be my first comment in this article therefore i i would like to provide a quick shout out and let you know I actually take pleasure in looking through your content. Are you able to recommend any other blogs</p>
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		<title>By: Junko Runswick</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-45643</link>
		<dc:creator>Junko Runswick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 19:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-45643</guid>
		<description>I love your wordpress template, where do you download it from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love your wordpress template, where do you download it from?</p>
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		<title>By: ppi claim calculator</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-41186</link>
		<dc:creator>ppi claim calculator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 May 2011 08:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-41186</guid>
		<description>I have a problem subscribing to your RSS Feed... It says feed is active, nevertheless I never receive updates in my feed reader... Any Ideas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a problem subscribing to your RSS Feed&#8230; It says feed is active, nevertheless I never receive updates in my feed reader&#8230; Any Ideas?</p>
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		<title>By: The Environmentalist&apos;s Dilemma: No Point in Arguing &#171; how to save the world</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-17487</link>
		<dc:creator>The Environmentalist&apos;s Dilemma: No Point in Arguing &#171; how to save the world</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17487</guid>
		<description>[...] the Transition movement and the Permaculture movement, both community-based networks, are the analogue of the local cells of religious groups. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Transition movement and the Permaculture movement, both community-based networks, are the analogue of the local cells of religious groups. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Zone5 &#187; Faith in Transition</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-17486</link>
		<dc:creator>Zone5 &#187; Faith in Transition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 10:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17486</guid>
		<description>[...] the forum- which was Rob&#8217;s response to Sharon Astyk&#8217;s astute critique of Permaculture and Transition- the discussion covered many interesting topics and many opinions, but several people clearly had [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the forum- which was Rob&#8217;s response to Sharon Astyk&#8217;s astute critique of Permaculture and Transition- the discussion covered many interesting topics and many opinions, but several people clearly had [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ann Lamot</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-17485</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann Lamot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17485</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve gone and read both of Sharon&#039;s postings and the comments, then I read Rob&#039;s postings and comments, took me a while, as I haven&#039;t got a lot of time to spend in front of a computer, too busy &quot;doing it&quot;. By that I mean that most of my time is spend growing food, reskilling others in my community to do likewise, organising events to raise people&#039;s awareness of the coming challenges of peak oil, climate change, etc, going to meetings to get people organised to start creating more local resilience, meeting with other community organisations to see how we could possibly work together, meeting with local authorities, have planning meetings with the other members of our core group and much more. Because I&#039;m one of those transitionistas and worse, I&#039;m even a transition trainer!

I&#039;m glad to see this discussion taking place in this way, because it is one that we have all the time amongst al lot of us working in transition. How to get more people informed, then how to get them to feel that they can actually take action to start working on their resilience and their communities&#039;.
We basically know what we&#039;ve got to do, but it all takes a lot of time and energy. It takes a lot of talking before you can get people to start doing stuff. There&#039;s just no getting away from that. It can be frustrating and seem like all we do is talk, but it still seems the most acceptable way to action.

Do we have enough time? I don&#039;t know, but what else would we do? Sit at home in solitairy despair? Wait for &quot;them&quot;(whoever &quot;they&quot; may be) to sort it for us? Every fruit tree planted, bicycle repaired, person taught how to grow food creates more resilience and will put us in a better position to weather shit hitting fans. Like Sharon, if I could see a better way of getting our communities ready, minimise the suffering and give my children a future worth living, I&#039;d be doing that. But I don&#039;t know of anything else that would work as fast and with as much respect for individuals and humanitairian values as the Transition process as proposed by Rob Hopkins.

I must say, as a transition trainer, I am a bit bemused by all the assumptions regarding transition training. Yes, of course we sit in a circle, duh, it is just the most practical way to see and hear everybody without getting neckache. But we don&#039;t &quot;hold hands&quot;.
The main aim of the course is to get people who want to start up transtion initiatives in their locality prepared to do this in the best possible way. It&#039;s about how to hold productive meetings, how to hold awareness raising events without banging your head on brick walls, how to give talks and presentations on the topic, how to deal with people who are scared and angry because of what you are telling them about their future and to be compassionate. We explore the transition ethos and principles so that people gain a good understanding of these. We look at what has been tried already and what worked and what didn&#039;t, so that people don&#039;t need to keep on making the same mistakes and can speed up the process. And yeah, sure we look at why it is so hard for people to change their ways, how we ended up on such a self destructive path and how we can keep going and not burn out. That&#039;s the inner work that we do that seems to cause such controversy. You can get get people to change what they do without getting them willing to change their expectations, their attitudes and their thinking. To ignore that aspect of humans would just be dumb.

So that&#039;s my twopence worth on the topic. Now I gotta go, got a lotta work to do. All the best to you all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;ve gone and read both of Sharon&#8217;s postings and the comments, then I read Rob&#8217;s postings and comments, took me a while, as I haven&#8217;t got a lot of time to spend in front of a computer, too busy &#8220;doing it&#8221;. By that I mean that most of my time is spend growing food, reskilling others in my community to do likewise, organising events to raise people&#8217;s awareness of the coming challenges of peak oil, climate change, etc, going to meetings to get people organised to start creating more local resilience, meeting with other community organisations to see how we could possibly work together, meeting with local authorities, have planning meetings with the other members of our core group and much more. Because I&#8217;m one of those transitionistas and worse, I&#8217;m even a transition trainer!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to see this discussion taking place in this way, because it is one that we have all the time amongst al lot of us working in transition. How to get more people informed, then how to get them to feel that they can actually take action to start working on their resilience and their communities&#8217;.<br />
We basically know what we&#8217;ve got to do, but it all takes a lot of time and energy. It takes a lot of talking before you can get people to start doing stuff. There&#8217;s just no getting away from that. It can be frustrating and seem like all we do is talk, but it still seems the most acceptable way to action.</p>
<p>Do we have enough time? I don&#8217;t know, but what else would we do? Sit at home in solitairy despair? Wait for &#8220;them&#8221;(whoever &#8220;they&#8221; may be) to sort it for us? Every fruit tree planted, bicycle repaired, person taught how to grow food creates more resilience and will put us in a better position to weather shit hitting fans. Like Sharon, if I could see a better way of getting our communities ready, minimise the suffering and give my children a future worth living, I&#8217;d be doing that. But I don&#8217;t know of anything else that would work as fast and with as much respect for individuals and humanitairian values as the Transition process as proposed by Rob Hopkins.</p>
<p>I must say, as a transition trainer, I am a bit bemused by all the assumptions regarding transition training. Yes, of course we sit in a circle, duh, it is just the most practical way to see and hear everybody without getting neckache. But we don&#8217;t &#8220;hold hands&#8221;.<br />
The main aim of the course is to get people who want to start up transtion initiatives in their locality prepared to do this in the best possible way. It&#8217;s about how to hold productive meetings, how to hold awareness raising events without banging your head on brick walls, how to give talks and presentations on the topic, how to deal with people who are scared and angry because of what you are telling them about their future and to be compassionate. We explore the transition ethos and principles so that people gain a good understanding of these. We look at what has been tried already and what worked and what didn&#8217;t, so that people don&#8217;t need to keep on making the same mistakes and can speed up the process. And yeah, sure we look at why it is so hard for people to change their ways, how we ended up on such a self destructive path and how we can keep going and not burn out. That&#8217;s the inner work that we do that seems to cause such controversy. You can get get people to change what they do without getting them willing to change their expectations, their attitudes and their thinking. To ignore that aspect of humans would just be dumb.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s my twopence worth on the topic. Now I gotta go, got a lotta work to do. All the best to you all!</p>
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		<title>By: Per Fagereng</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-17484</link>
		<dc:creator>Per Fagereng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17484</guid>
		<description>Governments also bomb innocent people. And governments train and equip their own terrorists.

If I were a cynical person I&#039;d shrug my shoulders and say that&#039;s how the world operates. But I&#039;m not being cynical, I&#039;m outraged.

My main point is: Any government that makes war on others might some day make war on its own people. We should be aware of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Governments also bomb innocent people. And governments train and equip their own terrorists.</p>
<p>If I were a cynical person I&#8217;d shrug my shoulders and say that&#8217;s how the world operates. But I&#8217;m not being cynical, I&#8217;m outraged.</p>
<p>My main point is: Any government that makes war on others might some day make war on its own people. We should be aware of that.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-2/#comment-17483</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 19:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17483</guid>
		<description>I see Permaculture as part of a broad global mindshift towards wholistic thinking. For me, this is incredibly heartening. If there is a tsunami of threats approaching, this type of thinking is also a tsunami --of spontaneous evolution in consciousness, happening with or without handholding circles.
   This new type of thinking has been cropping up in many places in the world. Although not always called &quot;permaculture,&quot; many of the same principles are being expressed by Vinay Gupta&#039;s designs for disaster relief; in Allan Savory&#039;s wholistic range management, developed in Africa; in Anna Edy&#039;s &quot;Solviva&quot; greenhouse designs (Anna actually built and ran a massively productive greenhouse for many years on Martha&#039;s Vineyard using chickens as a primary heat source.); in Alternative Energy DIY appropriate tech type inventions; even in business management theory where classic top-down authoritarian structures are now considered outmoded and are being replaced by more horizontal, collaborative structures; and as is happening on the internet with wikis, social networking, cell phone &quot;flash mobs,&quot;  and open source projects. These are examples of the new type of whole systems, collaborative thinking in action, which Bill Mollison also invented in his own earth-restorative way.
   One obstacle to applying rather than just teaching permaculture is access to land and the capital needed to put systems in place. In my part of Northern California I see so much underutilized land (considered Real Estate and thus far too expensive for young people to access.) which could otherwise be 1, 2, 5 acre smallholdings for families to tend and occupy in their handbuilt natural homes --even better as co-smallholding communities,  with the common land being used for the larger undertakings such as grain-growing, pond-building, or large animal grazing.
   In Santa Barbara, in a &quot;use small and slow solutions&quot; way, a group called foodnotlawns.org is putting in and tending food gardens in place of peoples&#039; lawns for free in exchange for rights to the surplus produce to sell in farmers&#039; markets --an example of a new kind of land reform (?!)
   I agree that permaculture, very dear to my heart, has to deal with its branding or image before it can effectively go mainstream. This is the brilliance of the Transition movement --its openhearted, inclusive outreaching-with-a-positive-message which is able to bring in local government et al, and really get some broad attention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Permaculture as part of a broad global mindshift towards wholistic thinking. For me, this is incredibly heartening. If there is a tsunami of threats approaching, this type of thinking is also a tsunami &#8211;of spontaneous evolution in consciousness, happening with or without handholding circles.<br />
   This new type of thinking has been cropping up in many places in the world. Although not always called &#8220;permaculture,&#8221; many of the same principles are being expressed by Vinay Gupta&#8217;s designs for disaster relief; in Allan Savory&#8217;s wholistic range management, developed in Africa; in Anna Edy&#8217;s &#8220;Solviva&#8221; greenhouse designs (Anna actually built and ran a massively productive greenhouse for many years on Martha&#8217;s Vineyard using chickens as a primary heat source.); in Alternative Energy DIY appropriate tech type inventions; even in business management theory where classic top-down authoritarian structures are now considered outmoded and are being replaced by more horizontal, collaborative structures; and as is happening on the internet with wikis, social networking, cell phone &#8220;flash mobs,&#8221;  and open source projects. These are examples of the new type of whole systems, collaborative thinking in action, which Bill Mollison also invented in his own earth-restorative way.<br />
   One obstacle to applying rather than just teaching permaculture is access to land and the capital needed to put systems in place. In my part of Northern California I see so much underutilized land (considered Real Estate and thus far too expensive for young people to access.) which could otherwise be 1, 2, 5 acre smallholdings for families to tend and occupy in their handbuilt natural homes &#8211;even better as co-smallholding communities,  with the common land being used for the larger undertakings such as grain-growing, pond-building, or large animal grazing.<br />
   In Santa Barbara, in a &#8220;use small and slow solutions&#8221; way, a group called foodnotlawns.org is putting in and tending food gardens in place of peoples&#8217; lawns for free in exchange for rights to the surplus produce to sell in farmers&#8217; markets &#8211;an example of a new kind of land reform (?!)<br />
   I agree that permaculture, very dear to my heart, has to deal with its branding or image before it can effectively go mainstream. This is the brilliance of the Transition movement &#8211;its openhearted, inclusive outreaching-with-a-positive-message which is able to bring in local government et al, and really get some broad attention.</p>
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		<title>By: Greenerminds Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Planting while Rome Burns</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-17482</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenerminds Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Planting while Rome Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/06/30/permaculture-future-part-ii/#comment-17482</guid>
		<description>[...] the debate raged around the web this weekend over Sharon Astyk&#8217;s posts (I &amp; II) on Permaculture and Transition, Rob Hopkins&#8217;s response, and a wild flurry of e-mails, I was [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the debate raged around the web this weekend over Sharon Astyk&#8217;s posts (I &#38; II) on Permaculture and Transition, Rob Hopkins&#8217;s response, and a wild flurry of e-mails, I was [...]</p>
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