Comments on: Damned If You Do, Damned If You Don't: Identity, Women, Domestic Life

By: perel

perel — Tue, 25 Oct 2011 23:19:29 +0000

You could certainly see your expertise in the paintings you write. The arena hopes for even more passionate writers such as you who are not afraid to say how they believe. All the time go after your heart.

By: Larita Madrid

Larita Madrid — Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:33:09 +0000

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By: Kati

Kati — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 07:58:26 +0000

I’ve gotta agree about the missing category…. My hubby and I both work (me 30 hours, him 40+ a week) outside the home, and are splitting housework a lot more these days than either of us saw our parents do. Oh, Dad would do dishes on occasion (and he was a much better cook than Mom) but housework was still deemed something for us girls to do. In my house, it’s a well-avowed fact that my hubby is better and more efficient at housework than I am, and he’s good at operating a lawn-mower, when I can’t mow a straight line to save my life. We barely make ends meet on a over-the-table-financial spread-sheet, so we don’t have $$ to hire domestic help. But, when we come home, it’s almost evenly split between us, whom starts laundry while the other starts dishes. I do most of the cooking (because I’m better at most cooking, except the grill), but he does most of the yard work….. And now that our kiddo is reaching her teen years, she pitches in quite a bit, which is a help. (or, would be if she’d stop griping about it.) There IS the possibility for a fairly even split between housework and financial-world work. Maybe it’s never perfectly 50/50, but what in this world IS?!?! Tonight, after hanging out with the neighbours a bit, he washed dishes while I watered the veggies. *shrug* It’s all good.

Otherwise, fantastic article…… Michelle Obama may not be perfect (again, who IS?) but she’s certainly working hard on it! And I think she’s a great role model for women everywhere….. (Wondering if she has the kids memorizing the “Midnight Ride of Paul Revere” while planting potatoes…. if only my memory were good enough to think about poetry while gardening.

By: risa b

risa b — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:44:40 +0000

A good theoretical framework for discussing the centrality of the “domestic economy” can be found in The Subsistence Perspective, which you can buy through Sharon’s online store, linked at the top of the blog. The book is an oldie but goodie, hard reading but very rewarding.

The argument is that it is no accident that the destruction of subsistence farming and the devaluing of “women’s work” have gone hand-in-hand during the industrial era. kind of “Women subsistence farmer’s of the world, unite.”

By: Cat

Cat — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:57:21 +0000

Ah yes…#4 does decribe us if you switch it to one working from home and one working from an office.

The part about going “completely mad” is certainly quite accurate!

By: Laura

Laura — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:25:41 +0000

Gnosticism. The ancient ideology that the flesh is evil, fallen, sinful and must be, somehow, abrogated and the spirit (the mind, the intellect) is pure and holy and worthy of exaltation.

Today, we have inculcated this ancient idea into almost all of life. We remove ourselves from the dirt and sweat and blood and tears of life as much as we possibly can. We think, therefore, that our true identity is in our minds and not in the work of our hands. First Lady Obama’s education and career are more valued to us than how she grows a tomato, how she manages her household, how she raises her children. We esteem her intellect more than her domesticity because, again, the mind (and the things of the mind) is pure…the flesh (and the things of the flesh) is not.

Think about all the “labour-saving” devices we have in our lives from elevators to riding-lawn mowers to ebooks to electric can-openers. Have we truly saved labour to pursue more lofty pure things of the intellect? Or are we just lazy…filling up our new-found moments with yet more mindless busyness?

Women’s work is a high art and should be treated as such. There is beauty, as well as fulfillment, in the garden, and the mending, and the raising of children, as well as reading and understanding Nietzsche, Aquinas, and Torts. A truly balanced life embraces those gifts (and vocations) given us…however grand or meager they may be.

Gnosticism is a killer in that it elevates an elite class at the expense of simplicity of daily life in it’s responsibilities. Look at some of the mundane objects our GrandMother’s used (casserole dishes and nut choppers): they were decorated…pretty…even elegant in their design. We Homemakers deserve that elevation of what we do…even as our jobs are too often thankless, boring, mundane.

What we do has future consequences much moreso than the very very few Hilary Clintons and Michelle Obamas and Eleanor Roosevelts. These three women effected their time and place, and the two contemporary women may effect a larger history. But all of us who bear children effect the future…even if it is only a localised future. What we do now and teach now is important in it’s generation. A home-grown tomato, a well-read bedtime story, a fresh bedsheet, will mean something after we’re gone…

By: Sharon

Sharon — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:21:56 +0000

Susan, and Cat, I can see why you think I did, but I was mentally at least (what, you can’t read my mind, you expect me to put it all out there in words ?) assuming that #4 included people who could work two “regular” jobs who don’t have to swtich schedules because they don’t have kids, but I should have said so.

Sharon

By: Laureen

Laureen — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:32:12 +0000

Up until January, I was the primary wage-earner, and my husband was the domestic front; raising children, working on the house, dealing with daily survival tasks. Then I got laid off, and we switched roles. It was totally seamless; we operate from a basis of mutual respect, and recognition that we were lucky enough that it was a choice for us to live as we did.

And the comments from people have been amazingly horrid. Basically, that things are as they should be now, and that aren’t we relieved now that I’m back in the kitchen and raising the kids and Jason’s back to “real work”.

Makes me really sad… for them. I know that because we have both done all the jobs, we have given our children a great template for “do the work that needs to be done”, and I’m horrified at how few people in the world are capable of that. Because as readers of this blog know, pretty soon, they’re going to have to.

And I agree with commenters about less stuff. My family lives on a boat, and we’re getting ready for a round the world cruise in October. You can only fit so much stuff on a boat, and that makes life far, far easier than keeping a house.

By: TLE

TLE — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:22:04 +0000

I don’t think the grunt work has to be excessive – the solution I’m working on is less stuff, & lowers standards (while preserving basic hygiene). I was talking to my grandmother about ‘life on the farm’ when she was young, and she made a point about housework that Sharon has made before – my great-grandmother mother kept house and did chores (including A LOT of canning on a coal stove), and it was hard work, yes. But she didn’t keep a big, jam-packed house spotless, nor did she do tons of laundry. The family had far fewer possessions then we would expect today. They had ‘good clothes’ that were kept clean for church etc, and wore ‘work clothes’ while working…and the same set was basically worn til the weekly wash day.

By: Pine Ridge

Pine Ridge — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:37:15 +0000

Well, currently in a #2, and probably will eb for the next 11 years. My job is all about :”If I am doing nothing all day then why am I so tired at night?!” lol, I must love it though or I would stop adding chores to my normal household work.

I was talking to a friend yesterday, he is in #3 (laid of since last February) and he brought by his youngest son to visit and was taking his older son fishing for the day…..

Now I want to know what the heck he does all day? I have been a sahm for the last 12 years, and I don’t have the time to go fishing, who would cook the meals and wash the clothes and feed the animals (not to mention split the firewood and finish the stupid drywall upstairs).

I’m seriously thinking I need to leave some housework for my dear hubby to do in the evening or lower my cleanliness standards….

maybe the kids and I need a day off?