Comments on: Starting Seeds and Transplanting Fall Crops in Summer http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/ Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess. Thu, 24 May 2012 23:53:32 -0700 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: zombieville usa http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-47721 zombieville usa Sat, 06 Aug 2011 19:24:55 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-47721 I agree with your The Chatelaine's Keys » Blog Archive » Starting Seeds and Transplanting Fall Crops in Summer, wonderful post. I agree with your The Chatelaine's Keys » Blog Archive » Starting Seeds and Transplanting Fall Crops in Summer, wonderful post.

]]> By: Miss73 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17921 Miss73 Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:12:49 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17921 Is there some way I can make it love me again? , Is there some way I can make it love me again? ,

]]> By: bottler http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17920 bottler Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:09:36 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17920 Hi everyone I think some of you may be interested in how someone in a very hot, dry climate (australian desert) grows most of her own food. Using wicking worm beds, shade cloth, sheer curtains, and very little water, Scarecrow has a blog http://scarecrowsgarden.blogspot.com/ and maintains a garden log at Aussies Living Simply http://www.aussieslivingsimply.com.au/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=54&thread_id=11506&rowstart=0 Both are very inspiring. Hi everyone
I think some of you may be interested in how someone in a very hot, dry climate (australian desert) grows most of her own food.
Using wicking worm beds, shade cloth, sheer curtains, and very little water, Scarecrow has a blog http://scarecrowsgarden.blogspot.com/ and maintains a garden log at Aussies Living Simply http://www.aussieslivingsimply.com.au/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=54&thread_id=11506&rowstart=0
Both are very inspiring.

]]> By: MD http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17919 MD Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:57:13 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17919 I am going to try fall cropping for the first time this year, but I'm having some success with the hot, dry season. I'm in Memphis, TN, where the 95+ dead zone temps start in late June or early July, and can last intermittently into September (with a constant 4-6 week period in July-August, hazardously hot, high humidity, little rain). The city heat island effect is bad here. I work with people from India, and asked them what varieties of vegetables they grow in their kind of heat. Some of these were available from Baker Creek, and I've been pleasantly surprised by the outcome so far. The Indian cucumbers took off growing when the weather got really hot, and produced well. Malabar Spinach grows well, too. I do water everything, so I'm not selecting for drought conditions, but I think talking to people from other (hotter) parts of the world for guidance is extremely helpful. I am going to try fall cropping for the first time this year, but I’m having some success with the hot, dry season. I’m in Memphis, TN, where the 95+ dead zone temps start in late June or early July, and can last intermittently into September (with a constant 4-6 week period in July-August, hazardously hot, high humidity, little rain). The city heat island effect is bad here.
I work with people from India, and asked them what varieties of vegetables they grow in their kind of heat. Some of these were available from Baker Creek, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the outcome so far. The Indian cucumbers took off growing when the weather got really hot, and produced well. Malabar Spinach grows well, too. I do water everything, so I’m not selecting for drought conditions, but I think talking to people from other (hotter) parts of the world for guidance is extremely helpful.

]]> By: Elizabeth http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17918 Elizabeth Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:34:03 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17918 St strange you should post this...today. I am trying to track down the number of my local County Extension Office to ask about fall plantings. I really want to plant another crop of potatoes but have no clue if the young plants will survive the hot summer sun of August and early September. Otherwise, our growing season is still long enough for the potatoes to mature underground (I think) with proper ground cover. Thank you -- St strange you should post this…today. I am trying to track down the number of my local County Extension Office to ask about fall plantings. I really want to plant another crop of potatoes but have no clue if the young plants will survive the hot summer sun of August and early September. Otherwise, our growing season is still long enough for the potatoes to mature underground (I think) with proper ground cover.

Thank you –

]]> By: risa b http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17917 risa b Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:29:08 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17917 We have frequently planted too late, trying to avoid blasts of heat than can occur right into September here. This year we'll have a winter growhouse a la Coleman for the first time -- but to raise winter-hardy plants in it from the beginning of August, instead of under the fruit trees where they're so happy, will take a little thinking through. Our current idea is to open several burlap fifty-pound-size bags and use them as shades about two feet off the ground through August and September, then put the polyethylene on the hoops in October. Open to "No, WAIT, risa, not THAT ..." suggestions meanwhile! We have frequently planted too late, trying to avoid blasts of heat than can occur right into September here. This year we’ll have a winter growhouse a la Coleman for the first time — but to raise winter-hardy plants in it from the beginning of August, instead of under the fruit trees where they’re so happy, will take a little thinking through. Our current idea is to open several burlap fifty-pound-size bags and use them as shades about two feet off the ground through August and September, then put the polyethylene on the hoops in October. Open to “No, WAIT, risa, not THAT …” suggestions meanwhile!

]]> By: sealander http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17916 sealander Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:44:23 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17916 Some years here we get several months of low rainfall over summer, generally followed by the autumn rains so it is important to have those fall/winter seedlings ready to go in once the regular rains start up again. Unfortunately around that time much of the space is still taken up with tomatoes, beans, squash, zuchini etc which will keep on producing until the first hard frost knocks them back, so I don't want to rip them out early. By the time those beds get cleaned out it is too late to plant anything other than garlic or fava beans in them. So it is always a juggling act with the space I have available - I have given up on trying to produce much in the way of brocolli, cabbages, and cauliflour, and focus on the leafy greens like tatsoi, chard and mizuna which grow faster and take up less space, and kohl rabi. Curly leaf kale is good too - if I get it planted at the right time the plants will last a full year and grow nearly as tall as me, and provide plenty of greens for ourselves and the chickens. The root vegetables that need to be overwintered also need to get a couple of months growth before the really cold weather starts - plant too late and they just sulk all winter and bolt at the first sign of spring. Someday we're going to knock down our old sheds and move the chicken house and I might actually have enough garden beds to do a proper rotation ;) Some years here we get several months of low rainfall over summer, generally followed by the autumn rains so it is important to have those fall/winter seedlings ready to go in once the regular rains start up again. Unfortunately around that time much of the space is still taken up with tomatoes, beans, squash, zuchini etc which will keep on producing until the first hard frost knocks them back, so I don’t want to rip them out early. By the time those beds get cleaned out it is too late to plant anything other than garlic or fava beans in them. So it is always a juggling act with the space I have available – I have given up on trying to produce much in the way of brocolli, cabbages, and cauliflour, and focus on the leafy greens like tatsoi, chard and mizuna which grow faster and take up less space, and kohl rabi. Curly leaf kale is good too – if I get it planted at the right time the plants will last a full year and grow nearly as tall as me, and provide plenty of greens for ourselves and the chickens.
The root vegetables that need to be overwintered also need to get a couple of months growth before the really cold weather starts – plant too late and they just sulk all winter and bolt at the first sign of spring.

Someday we’re going to knock down our old sheds and move the chicken house and I might actually have enough garden beds to do a proper rotation ;)

]]> By: Claire http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17915 Claire Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:21:50 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17915 I agree that season extension in warmer climates isn't treated as fully as it seems to be for colder climates. I've had to learn from experience what works well for me here in the St. Louis, MO metro area. Even the supposedly reliable sources of such info - the state extension service and Gateway Greening, the local community garden organization - haven't been as helpful on starting fall crops as they have been on starting spring and summer crops. There aren't as many regional seed companies for warmer areas either, where you might expect to find seeds that could make it through winter in the open garden. Southern Exposure Seed Exchange and Baker Creek Seeds are the two whose climate most matches my own. I think a lot of the problem with growing fall veggies comes with the heat waves we get in July and August, combined with the fast cool-down in the fall. We have to have mature crops by the end of October. The local sources will say to sow seeds in the garden in July or early August, but they don't tell you how important it is (for me) to wait till there is a 3-5 day stretch of below average temps to do it. As for holding the harvest over winter, the main problem seems to be the highly unsettled weather combined with no snow cover (we get occasional snows but they usually melt within a week). The freeze-thaw cycles, wind, cold rain, and sleet and ice really sock it to plants. Mulches give the voles a place to live, and crops give them food to eat. I find that crop survival is much improved in cold frames. They are sheltered from the wind and precipitation, and no need for mulch so fewer voles (though I do get rabbits in them ... it's always something). To grow seedlings that are ready to be put in the ground by August, I need to start them in mid-June. I have been successful in starting them under lights in our basement or in shade on the front porch (the front porch only works if we aren't in the middle of a heat wave at that point). Then I have to keep the seedlings alive for several weeks, during which we usually have at least one heat wave with highs in the upper 90s to over 100, and it might last for 2 or more weeks. Temps like that set back cool-weather crops so badly that they are easy prey for insects. Plus I need to keep the seedlings on a table under the porch roof (safe from rabbits and a little cooler). Only a little space there. It's easier to start from seeds in the garden ... but only if the weather cooperates, meaning a stretch of 3-5 days (more is better) with lows in the 60s, below average for the late June-early August time frame. We might not get a stretch that long, and I have not been successful at germinating cool-crop seeds if the lows are in the 70s or higher. All this assumes we are not in the middle of one of the aforementioned heat waves during August and September, when you need for the seedlings, however they were started, to put on a lot of growth. Years when that happens - 2007 being the latest one - mean very few fall crops. I haven't tried shade cloth, but I don't think it, or growing in a shady place, or mulch, or anything else you mention, will help when the average high for August is 94 and the average low is 75, as it was in August 2007. At that point, all you can do is re-sow seed thickly in September and harvest whatever thinnings and young plants you can get before the daylength and temps work together to end the growing season (early November). On the other hand, if we get a good year (2004 and 2008 were good years), I can grow lettuces weighing 2 pounds or 6 pound bok choys in the fall. It's up to the weather more than it is up to me. I agree that season extension in warmer climates isn’t treated as fully as it seems to be for colder climates. I’ve had to learn from experience what works well for me here in the St. Louis, MO metro area. Even the supposedly reliable sources of such info – the state extension service and Gateway Greening, the local community garden organization – haven’t been as helpful on starting fall crops as they have been on starting spring and summer crops. There aren’t as many regional seed companies for warmer areas either, where you might expect to find seeds that could make it through winter in the open garden. Southern Exposure Seed Exchange and Baker Creek Seeds are the two whose climate most matches my own.

I think a lot of the problem with growing fall veggies comes with the heat waves we get in July and August, combined with the fast cool-down in the fall. We have to have mature crops by the end of October. The local sources will say to sow seeds in the garden in July or early August, but they don’t tell you how important it is (for me) to wait till there is a 3-5 day stretch of below average temps to do it. As for holding the harvest over winter, the main problem seems to be the highly unsettled weather combined with no snow cover (we get occasional snows but they usually melt within a week). The freeze-thaw cycles, wind, cold rain, and sleet and ice really sock it to plants. Mulches give the voles a place to live, and crops give them food to eat. I find that crop survival is much improved in cold frames. They are sheltered from the wind and precipitation, and no need for mulch so fewer voles (though I do get rabbits in them … it’s always something).

To grow seedlings that are ready to be put in the ground by August, I need to start them in mid-June. I have been successful in starting them under lights in our basement or in shade on the front porch (the front porch only works if we aren’t in the middle of a heat wave at that point). Then I have to keep the seedlings alive for several weeks, during which we usually have at least one heat wave with highs in the upper 90s to over 100, and it might last for 2 or more weeks. Temps like that set back cool-weather crops so badly that they are easy prey for insects. Plus I need to keep the seedlings on a table under the porch roof (safe from rabbits and a little cooler). Only a little space there. It’s easier to start from seeds in the garden … but only if the weather cooperates, meaning a stretch of 3-5 days (more is better) with lows in the 60s, below average for the late June-early August time frame. We might not get a stretch that long, and I have not been successful at germinating cool-crop seeds if the lows are in the 70s or higher.

All this assumes we are not in the middle of one of the aforementioned heat waves during August and September, when you need for the seedlings, however they were started, to put on a lot of growth. Years when that happens – 2007 being the latest one – mean very few fall crops. I haven’t tried shade cloth, but I don’t think it, or growing in a shady place, or mulch, or anything else you mention, will help when the average high for August is 94 and the average low is 75, as it was in August 2007. At that point, all you can do is re-sow seed thickly in September and harvest whatever thinnings and young plants you can get before the daylength and temps work together to end the growing season (early November).

On the other hand, if we get a good year (2004 and 2008 were good years), I can grow lettuces weighing 2 pounds or 6 pound bok choys in the fall. It’s up to the weather more than it is up to me.

]]> By: Chile http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17914 Chile Tue, 14 Jul 2009 14:31:19 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17914 Mulch is equally critical here, in the desert, to keep the soil moist and cooler during the hot, dry summer preceding the monsoons. Shade cloth helps but can't work miracles - mostly it keeps the direct sun off the plants. The temperature inside my husband's "<a href="http://chilechews.blogspot.com/2009/05/garden-shadehouse.html" rel="nofollow">shadehouse</a>" still gets quite high on a hot day. (Yesterday, it was 112 in there until I turned on the misters which dropped the temperature a bit through evaporative cooling.) While we may plant some new seeds for fall, it is also a time when plants from the spring experience a resurgence. It is not uncommon to get a fall crop - a second crop - of tomatoes and peppers. The problem in the summer is the high temperatures actually cook the pollen. As the temperatures ease up, plants are able to produce again. Mulch is equally critical here, in the desert, to keep the soil moist and cooler during the hot, dry summer preceding the monsoons. Shade cloth helps but can’t work miracles – mostly it keeps the direct sun off the plants. The temperature inside my husband’s “shadehouse” still gets quite high on a hot day. (Yesterday, it was 112 in there until I turned on the misters which dropped the temperature a bit through evaporative cooling.)

While we may plant some new seeds for fall, it is also a time when plants from the spring experience a resurgence. It is not uncommon to get a fall crop – a second crop – of tomatoes and peppers. The problem in the summer is the high temperatures actually cook the pollen. As the temperatures ease up, plants are able to produce again.

]]> By: safira http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/comment-page-1/#comment-17913 safira Tue, 14 Jul 2009 12:48:54 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/07/14/starting-seeds-and-transplanting-fall-crops-in-summer/#comment-17913 Thank you so much for posting all this online. I'm reading Eliot Coleman as well, so I'm hoping between two great sources--one north of me, one west, but both in the same general region--I'll figure it out. One challenge for me to figure out is where I'm going to put fall crops. With this cool summer, many of my early-season crops that I figured would be long gone are still going strong. Who knew the peas I planted in March would still be producing mid-July? It's good, but I'd planned on having that space freed up by now. Thank you so much for posting all this online. I’m reading Eliot Coleman as well, so I’m hoping between two great sources–one north of me, one west, but both in the same general region–I’ll figure it out.

One challenge for me to figure out is where I’m going to put fall crops. With this cool summer, many of my early-season crops that I figured would be long gone are still going strong. Who knew the peas I planted in March would still be producing mid-July? It’s good, but I’d planned on having that space freed up by now.

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