Comments on: Massachusetts, Vaccinations and Pandemic Response http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Fri, 02 Oct 2009 02:16:01 +0000 #?v=2.3.2 By: Ed Straker http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25134 Ed Straker Tue, 29 Sep 2009 19:39:42 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25134 Sharon, you failed to directly address that there is large streak of doomers who believe one or more of the following: * Swine flu is a manmade genocidal conspiracy * Swine flu VACCINE is a manmade genocidal conspiracy * _Both_ of the above (as contradictory as that may seem) * Vaccines cause (fill in whatever disease you want) * Vaccination is always a threat to civil liberties (Typhoid May? Who's Typhoid Mary?) There is a lot of ideological baggage that tends to come along for the ride with doomers and this is one of them. I find it ironic that doomers who presumably are all-consumed with avoiding risk might actually expose themselves and others to more risk by taking an anti-vaccination stance. It's doubly ironic considering that many doomers feel the major vector for die-off will be pandemics. Such pandemics will have a much easier time of doing Gaia's dirty work if we do not vaccinate. Sharon, you failed to directly address that there is large streak of doomers who believe one or more of the following:

* Swine flu is a manmade genocidal conspiracy
* Swine flu VACCINE is a manmade genocidal conspiracy
* _Both_ of the above (as contradictory as that may seem)
* Vaccines cause (fill in whatever disease you want)
* Vaccination is always a threat to civil liberties (Typhoid May? Who’s Typhoid Mary?)

There is a lot of ideological baggage that tends to come along for the ride with doomers and this is one of them.

I find it ironic that doomers who presumably are all-consumed with avoiding risk might actually expose themselves and others to more risk by taking an anti-vaccination stance.

It’s doubly ironic considering that many doomers feel the major vector for die-off will be pandemics. Such pandemics will have a much easier time of doing Gaia’s dirty work if we do not vaccinate.

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By: Ann http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25098 Ann Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:10:04 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25098 Something else to consider is that vaccinations are not a cure for colds and flus, or a way of preventing them, as many people who get vaccinated will attest to. Vaccinations lessen or decrease the intensity and the duration of the flu. I think the drug companies often forget to tell us that the vaccination won't stop you from getting the flu. Strange, huh? Something else to consider is that vaccinations are not a cure for colds and flus, or a way of preventing them, as many people who get vaccinated will attest to. Vaccinations lessen or decrease the intensity and the duration of the flu.
I think the drug companies often forget to tell us that the vaccination won’t stop you from getting the flu. Strange, huh?

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By: karyn http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25046 karyn Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:47:36 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25046 I wonder how much the effectiveness of quarantines relies on the compliance of the people. I picture the Chinese people being more conscientious about reporting their illness and complying with the quarantine because they have a greater sense of the importance of the community's wellbeing (this may be my own faulty assumption of Asian behavior). On the other hand, I picture Americans disregarding the health of others if it impinges on their schedule. When my friend went home to Japan during the first H1N1 outbreak, she said the health department called her every day for a week to see if she or her children had any symptoms. I'm not saying that is a great policy, but it seems the Japanese are more accepting of this infringement than most Americans would be. I wonder how much the effectiveness of quarantines relies on the compliance of the people. I picture the Chinese people being more conscientious about reporting their illness and complying with the quarantine because they have a greater sense of the importance of the community’s wellbeing (this may be my own faulty assumption of Asian behavior). On the other hand, I picture Americans disregarding the health of others if it impinges on their schedule.

When my friend went home to Japan during the first H1N1 outbreak, she said the health department called her every day for a week to see if she or her children had any symptoms. I’m not saying that is a great policy, but it seems the Japanese are more accepting of this infringement than most Americans would be.

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By: Diana http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25043 Diana Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:53:08 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25043 Glad you're keeping up with all this stuff, Sharon! Hate to just get the Faux News version circulating. Glad you’re keeping up with all this stuff, Sharon! Hate to just get the Faux News version circulating.

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By: kate http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25034 kate Sat, 26 Sep 2009 04:25:15 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25034 Thanks for confirming that Sharon. It's good to have this post to refer people to. Thanks for confirming that Sharon. It’s good to have this post to refer people to.

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By: NM http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25028 NM Sat, 26 Sep 2009 00:52:25 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25028 An excellent piece, thank you. An excellent piece, thank you.

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By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25025 Sharon Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:01:37 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25025 There is no ambiguity that people are pemitted to decline the vaccinations, and choose quarantine. And again, if they choose quarantine, there is also no ambiguity that I can see that they are eligible for unemployment benefits and job protection - that is, they can't be pressured by employers into choosing the vaccine by the threat of economic harm. Sharon There is no ambiguity that people are pemitted to decline the vaccinations, and choose quarantine. And again, if they choose quarantine, there is also no ambiguity that I can see that they are eligible for unemployment benefits and job protection - that is, they can’t be pressured by employers into choosing the vaccine by the threat of economic harm.

Sharon

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By: kate http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25022 kate Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:51:27 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25022 "In fact, the bill provides for forcible vaccinations *or* quarantine - that is, if you are exposed to the disease or living in an area where a pandemic is rampant, if you decline vaccination, you must be quarantined." Just to clarify, is there no ambiguity in the bill that it's the person that gets to make the choice between the two, not the state? (I haven't read it) I have no problem if that is the case. Quarantine seems very sensible, and at the risk of inducing frothing ;-), more sensible than vaccinations that have a failure rate. “In fact, the bill provides for forcible vaccinations *or* quarantine - that is, if you are exposed to the disease or living in an area where a pandemic is rampant, if you decline vaccination, you must be quarantined.”

Just to clarify, is there no ambiguity in the bill that it’s the person that gets to make the choice between the two, not the state? (I haven’t read it)

I have no problem if that is the case. Quarantine seems very sensible, and at the risk of inducing frothing ;-), more sensible than vaccinations that have a failure rate.

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By: Kate@LivingTheFrugalLife http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25015 Kate@LivingTheFrugalLife Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:44:28 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25015 Eminently sensible. I do wonder how many frothing...er, I mean *differing opinion* comments you'll get on this post. Eminently sensible. I do wonder how many frothing…er, I mean *differing opinion* comments you’ll get on this post.

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By: Robyn M. http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25013 Robyn M. Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:24:41 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/2009/09/25/massachusetts-vaccinations-and-pandemic-response/#comment-25013 Sharon, thank you for being sane. Sharon, thank you for being sane.

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