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	<title>Comments on: Urban Right-to-Farm Laws</title>
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		<title>By: Arlinda Loewenstein</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-46669</link>
		<dc:creator>Arlinda Loewenstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Jul 2011 16:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just want to mention I&#039;m new to weblog and definitely loved this page. Very likely I’m want to bookmark your site . You amazingly have incredible stories. With thanks for revealing your webpage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to mention I&#8217;m new to weblog and definitely loved this page. Very likely I’m want to bookmark your site . You amazingly have incredible stories. With thanks for revealing your webpage.</p>
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		<title>By: Peak oil gift buying guide — Transition Voice</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-31542</link>
		<dc:creator>Peak oil gift buying guide — Transition Voice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Dec 2010 22:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 10 and 20% of our population is now out of work. Have any projects launched that would bring backyard chickens to those on Food Stamps? Or help rent or buy a lot for a local community garden? Or send the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 10 and 20% of our population is now out of work. Have any projects launched that would bring backyard chickens to those on Food Stamps? Or help rent or buy a lot for a local community garden? Or send the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fahimerss</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-22461</link>
		<dc:creator>Fahimerss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Mar 2010 03:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I remember this!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember this!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 02:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19694</guid>
		<description>1) I suggest we make allowances for beehives in higher density locations.

2) I suggest we extend the farm tax rate to those with around 0.5-1 acre or more of land, who show they are operating as a small scale farm to increase local food availability.

Currently I live in rural Tucson, Arizona where we have begun to farm a small portion of two 5 acre lots.  The name of the farm is ReZoNation, is based on a whole systems (permaculture) approach, and natural beekeeping is my specialty.

The Arizona Revised Statutes gives the local assessor the authority to &quot;overlook&quot; the law which requires that a farm be twenty acres or more in combined size, and has been operating as a farm for at least 7 years before it can be granted the lower farm tax rate.

If small scale sustainable agriculture is to be successful, and if we wish to increase regional food security, we have to encourage rural families on larger parcels of land just outside major metro areas to farm.  We can do this by providing the financial incentive by significantly lowering their property tax and making it easier on them financially.  We pay approximately $1200 per year for the rural (Rural Homestead (RH)) zoned 5 acres that has the home, and an additional $550 per year for the adjacent 5 acres that has no home (yet).  Right now that is equivalent to 4 mortgage payments per year, provides us a fraction of the government services that our urban neighbors are used to, and requires us to stay employed instead of putting that time into making the land productive.

Personally, I am hoping my local jurisdictions soon become unable to enforce zoning laws due to budget deficits that have no where to go but up.  They are so understaffed at this point that I think we are nearing this scenario.  This means that we will most likely have to become the protectors (enforcers) of how our land is used.

I have 10 years experience in land development/civil engineering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1) I suggest we make allowances for beehives in higher density locations.</p>
<p>2) I suggest we extend the farm tax rate to those with around 0.5-1 acre or more of land, who show they are operating as a small scale farm to increase local food availability.</p>
<p>Currently I live in rural Tucson, Arizona where we have begun to farm a small portion of two 5 acre lots.  The name of the farm is ReZoNation, is based on a whole systems (permaculture) approach, and natural beekeeping is my specialty.</p>
<p>The Arizona Revised Statutes gives the local assessor the authority to &#8220;overlook&#8221; the law which requires that a farm be twenty acres or more in combined size, and has been operating as a farm for at least 7 years before it can be granted the lower farm tax rate.</p>
<p>If small scale sustainable agriculture is to be successful, and if we wish to increase regional food security, we have to encourage rural families on larger parcels of land just outside major metro areas to farm.  We can do this by providing the financial incentive by significantly lowering their property tax and making it easier on them financially.  We pay approximately $1200 per year for the rural (Rural Homestead (RH)) zoned 5 acres that has the home, and an additional $550 per year for the adjacent 5 acres that has no home (yet).  Right now that is equivalent to 4 mortgage payments per year, provides us a fraction of the government services that our urban neighbors are used to, and requires us to stay employed instead of putting that time into making the land productive.</p>
<p>Personally, I am hoping my local jurisdictions soon become unable to enforce zoning laws due to budget deficits that have no where to go but up.  They are so understaffed at this point that I think we are nearing this scenario.  This means that we will most likely have to become the protectors (enforcers) of how our land is used.</p>
<p>I have 10 years experience in land development/civil engineering.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19693</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 05:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19693</guid>
		<description>I suggest mass civil disobedience.  It&#039;s the fastest way to get the laws changed or amended and is the fundamental American way of doing things.  Asking permission and spending years jumping through hoops is time consuming, a pain, and costly.  It&#039;s easier to do what you want and ask for forgiveness later.  If enough people are doing what they want, the forgiveness will come automatically.  If not, you need to question what kind of government you really have then.  Because only tyranny will resort to force immediately.

Here in Wyoming, we have a proud tradition of ignoring those laws that don&#039;t suit us.  Our town has a law from 1864 that prohibits the carrying of firearms within town limits.  We do it anyway.  The town cop doesn&#039;t bother anyone with it because it&#039;s a stupid law and everyone knows it.

In lots smaller than 1/2 acre, livestock are not permitted including poultry, geese, etc.  People keep chickens anyway.  So long as you don&#039;t have a rooster waking everyone up at all hours, nobody cares.  I asked the town historian and she said this was enacted in the late 1800s because subletting was common and tiny lots with cows on them don&#039;t work well.

When we lived in the big city (we&#039;ll never go back) in Utah, it was relatively the same.  They were more Nazi-esque about enFORCEment, but the zoning laws were all old and usually for the same kinds of reasons.  The difference there versus here was that the cops weren&#039;t shy about making threats, throwing out huge fines, and being general a-holes about it.  In our neighborhood, though, we told them to shove off and successfully kept our front yard gardens (most of us had no back yard) and poultry and one guy even had bees.

Once again, just do it and screw them.  If they come after you, make to the press about being the little guy just wanting to live a better life and getting screwed by The Man.  They eat that up and make life suck for the establishment.  Worked for us.

If more Americans did this sort of thing (you know, acted like Americans), we wouldn&#039;t have all of this crap going on around us.  Mass compliance with stupidity is the surest way to become a slave.  Worry less about the bureaucrats and more about yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suggest mass civil disobedience.  It&#8217;s the fastest way to get the laws changed or amended and is the fundamental American way of doing things.  Asking permission and spending years jumping through hoops is time consuming, a pain, and costly.  It&#8217;s easier to do what you want and ask for forgiveness later.  If enough people are doing what they want, the forgiveness will come automatically.  If not, you need to question what kind of government you really have then.  Because only tyranny will resort to force immediately.</p>
<p>Here in Wyoming, we have a proud tradition of ignoring those laws that don&#8217;t suit us.  Our town has a law from 1864 that prohibits the carrying of firearms within town limits.  We do it anyway.  The town cop doesn&#8217;t bother anyone with it because it&#8217;s a stupid law and everyone knows it.</p>
<p>In lots smaller than 1/2 acre, livestock are not permitted including poultry, geese, etc.  People keep chickens anyway.  So long as you don&#8217;t have a rooster waking everyone up at all hours, nobody cares.  I asked the town historian and she said this was enacted in the late 1800s because subletting was common and tiny lots with cows on them don&#8217;t work well.</p>
<p>When we lived in the big city (we&#8217;ll never go back) in Utah, it was relatively the same.  They were more Nazi-esque about enFORCEment, but the zoning laws were all old and usually for the same kinds of reasons.  The difference there versus here was that the cops weren&#8217;t shy about making threats, throwing out huge fines, and being general a-holes about it.  In our neighborhood, though, we told them to shove off and successfully kept our front yard gardens (most of us had no back yard) and poultry and one guy even had bees.</p>
<p>Once again, just do it and screw them.  If they come after you, make to the press about being the little guy just wanting to live a better life and getting screwed by The Man.  They eat that up and make life suck for the establishment.  Worked for us.</p>
<p>If more Americans did this sort of thing (you know, acted like Americans), we wouldn&#8217;t have all of this crap going on around us.  Mass compliance with stupidity is the surest way to become a slave.  Worry less about the bureaucrats and more about yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19692</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Oct 2009 05:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19692</guid>
		<description>In Australia it is mainly chicken keeping laws that your blog applies to.  They vary all over, any which way you can.

Recently we had 2 dogs maul a lady walking on the footpath, just a block from where I live.  I have spent all of 2009 warning council large dogs are roaming in increasing numbers in this area.  I met with the Mayor just the day before the attack, to plead my case.  No sympathy.  They don&#039;t want to offend dog owners.  Of course my concerns about wandering dogs related to my small animals (chickens and guard geese) which council view disapprovingly. (I notice neighbourhood chicken nos. are on the rise around me).

And why do I even have guard geese?  That&#039;s a whole other story.  Both stories involved govts providing housing for &quot;the needy&quot; who turn out to be less than needy, less than sociable and not people you want with large dogs vaguely attached to their households.  In the latest case the guy keeps the dogs to slow the police down in a drug raid and sools them on to passers-by for sport.

I truly wish we had more focus on domestic food production systems and less on large dogs as status symbols.  My roosters have to be licenced in case their night time crowing causes offense but if your dog mauls a 59 y o lady walking down a street in broad daylight, you&#039;re home clear.

Sorry I&#039;m ranting but this whole subject is one I read about periodically on USA websites and see unfolding here.  We don&#039;t have homeowners assocs (thanks be to G-d) but we don&#039;t have right to farm laws either.  I dare not even use the word &#039;farm&#039; on my web page - read it yourself, do you see the word &#039;farm&#039; there?  No, you see, &#039;food production systems&#039; instead.

Gee I hope you guys can pull off some &#039;right to farm&#039; laws, I&#039;ll be watching you closely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Australia it is mainly chicken keeping laws that your blog applies to.  They vary all over, any which way you can.</p>
<p>Recently we had 2 dogs maul a lady walking on the footpath, just a block from where I live.  I have spent all of 2009 warning council large dogs are roaming in increasing numbers in this area.  I met with the Mayor just the day before the attack, to plead my case.  No sympathy.  They don&#8217;t want to offend dog owners.  Of course my concerns about wandering dogs related to my small animals (chickens and guard geese) which council view disapprovingly. (I notice neighbourhood chicken nos. are on the rise around me).</p>
<p>And why do I even have guard geese?  That&#8217;s a whole other story.  Both stories involved govts providing housing for &#8220;the needy&#8221; who turn out to be less than needy, less than sociable and not people you want with large dogs vaguely attached to their households.  In the latest case the guy keeps the dogs to slow the police down in a drug raid and sools them on to passers-by for sport.</p>
<p>I truly wish we had more focus on domestic food production systems and less on large dogs as status symbols.  My roosters have to be licenced in case their night time crowing causes offense but if your dog mauls a 59 y o lady walking down a street in broad daylight, you&#8217;re home clear.</p>
<p>Sorry I&#8217;m ranting but this whole subject is one I read about periodically on USA websites and see unfolding here.  We don&#8217;t have homeowners assocs (thanks be to G-d) but we don&#8217;t have right to farm laws either.  I dare not even use the word &#8216;farm&#8217; on my web page &#8211; read it yourself, do you see the word &#8216;farm&#8217; there?  No, you see, &#8216;food production systems&#8217; instead.</p>
<p>Gee I hope you guys can pull off some &#8216;right to farm&#8217; laws, I&#8217;ll be watching you closely.</p>
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		<title>By: NM</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19691</link>
		<dc:creator>NM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 01:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19691</guid>
		<description>On rereading, that first sentence doesn&#039;t quite make sense. Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On rereading, that first sentence doesn&#8217;t quite make sense. Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: NM</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19690</link>
		<dc:creator>NM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Oct 2009 01:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19690</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think Alan was disagreeing that the laws should be changed, just saying it would be really hard to do, because of those laws.
 Laws the state Legislature doesn&#039;t want to get anywhere near.
 We&#039;ve already been having water fights out here for the last decade (or 10) and they are only going to get uglier. All the water doesn&#039;t get harvested — here, although there are places where rivers actually peter out, due to overuse — but under Oregon law, we actually have allocated more water to people than exists in our waterways.
 This is nuts. And every city manager I&#039;ve spoken to about it admits that the ##%# is going to hit the fan in probably less than a decade. Many have to declare water shortages during the summer months.
 And yet, state law forbids cities from declaring a moratorium on growth due to lack of water, except very temporarily.
 Meanwhile the warming climate is worsening summer water shortages, well levels are dropping, and some cities are just now starting to think that maybe all those restrictions on grey water use and rainwater collection should maybe be rethunk.
 And there are some fine organizations working, for example, to get some of  that water actually allocated to fish (! Truly. Under state law, water left for the fishes is water wasted. I said it was nuts).
  The next decade out here is going to be an exciting one, as people try to work out a solution. I just hope not in a wild west sort of way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Alan was disagreeing that the laws should be changed, just saying it would be really hard to do, because of those laws.<br />
 Laws the state Legislature doesn&#8217;t want to get anywhere near.<br />
 We&#8217;ve already been having water fights out here for the last decade (or 10) and they are only going to get uglier. All the water doesn&#8217;t get harvested — here, although there are places where rivers actually peter out, due to overuse — but under Oregon law, we actually have allocated more water to people than exists in our waterways.<br />
 This is nuts. And every city manager I&#8217;ve spoken to about it admits that the ##%# is going to hit the fan in probably less than a decade. Many have to declare water shortages during the summer months.<br />
 And yet, state law forbids cities from declaring a moratorium on growth due to lack of water, except very temporarily.<br />
 Meanwhile the warming climate is worsening summer water shortages, well levels are dropping, and some cities are just now starting to think that maybe all those restrictions on grey water use and rainwater collection should maybe be rethunk.<br />
 And there are some fine organizations working, for example, to get some of  that water actually allocated to fish (! Truly. Under state law, water left for the fishes is water wasted. I said it was nuts).<br />
  The next decade out here is going to be an exciting one, as people try to work out a solution. I just hope not in a wild west sort of way.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan in NJ</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19689</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan in NJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 15:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19689</guid>
		<description>Sharon, given the popularity in some circles for backyard chickens and frontyard gardens, it seems to me that a search of legal literature might turn up a few law review articles (probably written by students) on the subject.  Also, IMHO, compiling information on what&#039;s out there for particular parts of this project  . . . such as chickens or f.y. gardens or urban fish farms . . . would be a good Law Review project.
 If you know any farm-centric law students.  It also seems to me that someone in a Ag School somewhere or other environmental program might be working on this.  No reason to re-invent the wheel if all you need is to develop the transmission.
I&#039;ll put it on my list of things to think about in my free time . . . I may have some contacts/more suggestions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sharon, given the popularity in some circles for backyard chickens and frontyard gardens, it seems to me that a search of legal literature might turn up a few law review articles (probably written by students) on the subject.  Also, IMHO, compiling information on what&#8217;s out there for particular parts of this project  . . . such as chickens or f.y. gardens or urban fish farms . . . would be a good Law Review project.<br />
 If you know any farm-centric law students.  It also seems to me that someone in a Ag School somewhere or other environmental program might be working on this.  No reason to re-invent the wheel if all you need is to develop the transmission.<br />
I&#8217;ll put it on my list of things to think about in my free time . . . I may have some contacts/more suggestions.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/comment-page-1/#comment-19688</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/01/urban-right-to-farm-laws/#comment-19688</guid>
		<description>Alan, but backed up storm sewers mean water contamination and flooding, and no, not all that water does get effectively harvested - flooded streets are periodic, regular problem in many dry areas, including Vegas, Pheonix, etc...  Some of that water gets soaked into ground or backed up into places where it can&#039;t be properly used.  The point being that the consequences of harvesting water aren&#039;t always bad even within old-style water rights systems.  Brad Lancaster, who Danielle mentioned above, has a really good analysis of how much rainwater collection will affect water harvesting, and the effect of widespread use is very small - which is why some even very dry communities with contentious water rights (Tucson, say) issues encourage private harvesting of rainwater.

Dogear6, I&#039;ve got a neighbor who lives in a trailer on his sister&#039;s land with about 14 dogs, that he does not restrain and sometimes gets drunk and shoots at deer through his windows - on good days he opens them ;-).  So yeah, there are bad, stupid, incompetent neighbors everywhere. And if you don&#039;t think your lot can sustain more animals, you shouldn&#039;t have them - the point of this is to assume that most people will have common sense, and that the burden of proving a nuisance should be on the petitioner.  It doesn&#039;t mean that farmers in the country or the city should be able to do anything they want - no one wants a confinement hog operation in their city lot, for example.  I tend to agree with Brad that most pigs (except dwarf breeds) should be classified as large livestock and restricted to large lots - 1/2 acre, perhaps.  But I would never suggest that people who believe their lot is at animal carrying capacity increase their production - that&#039;s how we got into this mess.

Susan, I was hoping you&#039;d comment on this - thank you.  I know it is probably a pipe dream, and that zoning laws are a mess, but I still think there&#039;s something to be said for a national right to farm movement for cities that offer some kind of broad template.  After all, much of the present reconsideration of zoning in any given city is based on &quot;well X and Y and Z city allow this and this...&quot; - bringing that information together and giving people the tools to use it would help in a lot of little battles, even if it won&#039;t fix everything for everyone.

Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan, but backed up storm sewers mean water contamination and flooding, and no, not all that water does get effectively harvested &#8211; flooded streets are periodic, regular problem in many dry areas, including Vegas, Pheonix, etc&#8230;  Some of that water gets soaked into ground or backed up into places where it can&#8217;t be properly used.  The point being that the consequences of harvesting water aren&#8217;t always bad even within old-style water rights systems.  Brad Lancaster, who Danielle mentioned above, has a really good analysis of how much rainwater collection will affect water harvesting, and the effect of widespread use is very small &#8211; which is why some even very dry communities with contentious water rights (Tucson, say) issues encourage private harvesting of rainwater.</p>
<p>Dogear6, I&#8217;ve got a neighbor who lives in a trailer on his sister&#8217;s land with about 14 dogs, that he does not restrain and sometimes gets drunk and shoots at deer through his windows &#8211; on good days he opens them <img src='http://sharonastyk.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> .  So yeah, there are bad, stupid, incompetent neighbors everywhere. And if you don&#8217;t think your lot can sustain more animals, you shouldn&#8217;t have them &#8211; the point of this is to assume that most people will have common sense, and that the burden of proving a nuisance should be on the petitioner.  It doesn&#8217;t mean that farmers in the country or the city should be able to do anything they want &#8211; no one wants a confinement hog operation in their city lot, for example.  I tend to agree with Brad that most pigs (except dwarf breeds) should be classified as large livestock and restricted to large lots &#8211; 1/2 acre, perhaps.  But I would never suggest that people who believe their lot is at animal carrying capacity increase their production &#8211; that&#8217;s how we got into this mess.</p>
<p>Susan, I was hoping you&#8217;d comment on this &#8211; thank you.  I know it is probably a pipe dream, and that zoning laws are a mess, but I still think there&#8217;s something to be said for a national right to farm movement for cities that offer some kind of broad template.  After all, much of the present reconsideration of zoning in any given city is based on &#8220;well X and Y and Z city allow this and this&#8230;&#8221; &#8211; bringing that information together and giving people the tools to use it would help in a lot of little battles, even if it won&#8217;t fix everything for everyone.</p>
<p>Sharon</p>
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