Comments on: Hope is Cheap http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/ Sharon Astyk's Ruminations on an Ambiguous Future Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:21:58 -0700 #?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Naomi http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25680 Naomi Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:37:45 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25680 I'll agree with you Sharon (and yes, I'm one of those "outsiders" who really does appreciate that Obama is NOT George W.). I do admire Obama for the work he is doing - he is at the start of a very long journey to change the way America sees the rest of the world, and the way the rest of the world sees America. It isn't going to be easy, and he may not see the results while he is still in office (maybe even in his lifetime). People outside America are watching closely to see if he will be allowed to make the changes that are so desperately needed. But it seems as though this award has been given on the basis of good intentions - and that does neither Obama nor the Nobel Peace Prize justice. Talk is wonderful - but when it comes to something like a Nobel Prize, well, you would think that results carried a bit more weight, don't you think? I’ll agree with you Sharon (and yes, I’m one of those “outsiders” who really does appreciate that Obama is NOT George W.).

I do admire Obama for the work he is doing – he is at the start of a very long journey to change the way America sees the rest of the world, and the way the rest of the world sees America. It isn’t going to be easy, and he may not see the results while he is still in office (maybe even in his lifetime). People outside America are watching closely to see if he will be allowed to make the changes that are so desperately needed.

But it seems as though this award has been given on the basis of good intentions – and that does neither Obama nor the Nobel Peace Prize justice.

Talk is wonderful – but when it comes to something like a Nobel Prize, well, you would think that results carried a bit more weight, don’t you think?

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By: Christy O http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25666 Christy O Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:24:57 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25666 I think the rabid Obama supporters are funny. Where did Sharon say she hated Obama? Where did she say she would have preferred McCain/Palin? Why is it everytime someone says they don't agree with a policy of Obama's, they suddenly hate him and love Bush? I don't even agree with everything my husband does or says, why should I be expected to agree with everything a president does or says? Get a grip people! I think the rabid Obama supporters are funny. Where did Sharon say she hated Obama? Where did she say she would have preferred McCain/Palin? Why is it everytime someone says they don’t agree with a policy of Obama’s, they suddenly hate him and love Bush? I don’t even agree with everything my husband does or says, why should I be expected to agree with everything a president does or says? Get a grip people!

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By: Bettina http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25650 Bettina Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:26:17 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25650 When I heard first that Obama got the nobel prize / peace I thougt: What a slap in the face of all these people that are really working hard for a little bit of peace on this earth!(let's say streetworkers in brasilian slums etc.). Bettina from Germany When I heard first that Obama got the nobel prize / peace I thougt:
What a slap in the face of all these people that are really working hard for a little bit of peace on this earth!(let’s say streetworkers in brasilian slums etc.).

Bettina from Germany

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By: Sara: in northern rural Alabama http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25647 Sara: in northern rural Alabama Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:36:39 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25647 oh what a box of _____ has been opened here. this wonderful oasis of a place to come together to attempt to DO SOMETHING about our dire predicament .... (PO, CC, etc) and now look such bickering amongst us can we go back to DOING SOMETHING now. dayenu! oh what a box of _____ has been opened here.

this wonderful oasis of a place to come together to attempt to DO SOMETHING about our dire predicament …. (PO, CC, etc)

and now look

such bickering amongst us

can we go back to
DOING SOMETHING now.

dayenu!

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By: Julien Peter Benney http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25622 Julien Peter Benney Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:43:21 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25622 Hello, for all those who complain about Henry Kissinger being given the prize, you are right that it is enough reason to be suspicious, especially if you read a quite well-known (well, among people of your political stripe) article by John Lukács unfavourably comparing Kissinger to Dorothy Day, the famed Catholic pacifist without whom the opposition to the Vietnam War would most likely never have threatened the US. The article can be read at "http://www.sparrowrose.com/homework/pol_econ_week_four.htm" or "http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=8694". However, if Kissinger can quite legitimately be said to have usurped the Peace Prize from Dorothy Day (who was nominated but - believe it or not - considered too radically pacifist for the judges) it is hard to see who Obama could have usurped. At this moment at least I wonder why they do not consider failing to award the prize at all - it was far from uncommon before 1973. Hello,

for all those who complain about Henry Kissinger being given the prize, you are right that it is enough reason to be suspicious, especially if you read a quite well-known (well, among people of your political stripe) article by John Lukács unfavourably comparing Kissinger to Dorothy Day, the famed Catholic pacifist without whom the opposition to the Vietnam War would most likely never have threatened the US.

The article can be read at “http://www.sparrowrose.com/homework/pol_econ_week_four.htm” or “http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php?a=topic&t=8694″.

However, if Kissinger can quite legitimately be said to have usurped the Peace Prize from Dorothy Day (who was nominated but – believe it or not – considered too radically pacifist for the judges) it is hard to see who Obama could have usurped. At this moment at least I wonder why they do not consider failing to award the prize at all – it was far from uncommon before 1973.

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By: Sharon http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25621 Sharon Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:53:38 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25621 One of the things that I think is most telling about this is how reductionist the analysis gets - maybe mine too, but think about it. Now saying "you don't deserve the nobel peace prize" has become an insult - imagine saying that to someone when you get mad "You don't even deserve the nobel peace prize!" I mean c'mon - saying Obama doesn't deserve NPP is hardly like saying he's bad, or that we'd prefer McCain or that he's even not a good man. But that's the nature of backhanded compliments. Sharon One of the things that I think is most telling about this is how reductionist the analysis gets – maybe mine too, but think about it. Now saying “you don’t deserve the nobel peace prize” has become an insult – imagine saying that to someone when you get mad “You don’t even deserve the nobel peace prize!” I mean c’mon – saying Obama doesn’t deserve NPP is hardly like saying he’s bad, or that we’d prefer McCain or that he’s even not a good man. But that’s the nature of backhanded compliments.

Sharon

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By: Lauren http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25620 Lauren Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:12:26 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25620 Here is an interesting blog entry: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/9/791729/-For-a-minute-I-forgot-how-important-the-United-States-is Here is an interesting blog entry:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/9/791729/-For-a-minute-I-forgot-how-important-the-United-States-is

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By: Mike Cagle http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25618 Mike Cagle Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:35:20 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25618 And another thing... Time's "Man of the Year" (now "Person of the Year") is not necessarily an "honor." It's supposed to be a person (or a category of person) (or even sometimes something non-human) who was highly influential in the recent year -- not necessarily an admirable or honorable person. Hitler, Stalin and Khomeini were each named "Man of the Year" (in '38, '39, and '79). And another thing… Time’s “Man of the Year” (now “Person of the Year”) is not necessarily an “honor.” It’s supposed to be a person (or a category of person) (or even sometimes something non-human) who was highly influential in the recent year — not necessarily an admirable or honorable person. Hitler, Stalin and Khomeini were each named “Man of the Year” (in ‘38, ‘39, and ‘79).

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By: Mike Cagle http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25617 Mike Cagle Sun, 11 Oct 2009 04:26:43 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25617 There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding along the lines of "he was only three weeks into his presidency when he was nominated for this." NOMINATED, folks. That doesn't mean it was decided then to give him the award. That means it was decided then to make it a possibility (in other words, "we might want to do this, let's put him into the mix and see how things go and what we think about it when the time comes"). Nominating him then was keeping the option open. The decision to give him the award wasn't actually made until last Monday. Just FYI. Nextly, those of you who are chiding Sharon for criticizing or attacking Obama, if you read what she wrote, that's not her intent at all. Partly, I think she's saying that the Nobel people created an awkward situation for Obama. Which is obviously true and many have remarked on it. I think in a way, that was their intention -- they hope by this to influence his future behavior and nudge it in the direction of peacemaking. Once you are a Nobel Peace Prize winner you might feel weird about starting a war! (If you have a brain that is -- it wouldn't have had any effect on Bush.) Another thing -- appaarently Obama's own first comment when he was told about the award was, "what are you talking about? Is this a joke?" Obviously he thought it was as odd and surprising as anyone. ps -- Sharon, I apologize for my testy remark about the moon thing. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding along the lines of “he was only three weeks into his presidency when he was nominated for this.” NOMINATED, folks. That doesn’t mean it was decided then to give him the award. That means it was decided then to make it a possibility (in other words, “we might want to do this, let’s put him into the mix and see how things go and what we think about it when the time comes”). Nominating him then was keeping the option open. The decision to give him the award wasn’t actually made until last Monday. Just FYI.

Nextly, those of you who are chiding Sharon for criticizing or attacking Obama, if you read what she wrote, that’s not her intent at all. Partly, I think she’s saying that the Nobel people created an awkward situation for Obama. Which is obviously true and many have remarked on it. I think in a way, that was their intention — they hope by this to influence his future behavior and nudge it in the direction of peacemaking. Once you are a Nobel Peace Prize winner you might feel weird about starting a war! (If you have a brain that is — it wouldn’t have had any effect on Bush.)

Another thing — appaarently Obama’s own first comment when he was told about the award was, “what are you talking about? Is this a joke?” Obviously he thought it was as odd and surprising as anyone.

ps — Sharon, I apologize for my testy remark about the moon thing.

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By: Diana http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/09/hope/comment-page-2/#comment-25616 Diana Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:36:40 +0000 http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1283#comment-25616 Thank you, Lauren for posting the text, and Kestrel, I must agree with you. WTF, Sharon? I can go to Faux News to read disparaging comments of the guy we elected. I can go to the stupid Millenium Ark (where I go to see what the nutjobs are thinking now) to see more mud slung. He didn't nominate himself, and the reasons why he won are pretty clearly delineated in Lauren's post. Apparently, not being George Bush is enough for the Nobel Committee, and it's enough for me for a start as well. No, he is not helping pull individuals out of communist countries but he's trying to do things that will have wider-reaching effects for entire countries. Like nuclear disarmament. Gosh, what a slacker. Thank you, Lauren for posting the text, and Kestrel, I must agree with you. WTF, Sharon? I can go to Faux News to read disparaging comments of the guy we elected. I can go to the stupid Millenium Ark (where I go to see what the nutjobs are thinking now) to see more mud slung. He didn’t nominate himself, and the reasons why he won are pretty clearly delineated in Lauren’s post. Apparently, not being George Bush is enough for the Nobel Committee, and it’s enough for me for a start as well. No, he is not helping pull individuals out of communist countries but he’s trying to do things that will have wider-reaching effects for entire countries. Like nuclear disarmament. Gosh, what a slacker.

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