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	<title>Comments on: The Drowned World: Parshat Noah and the Face of G-d</title>
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	<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/</link>
	<description>Finding the keys to the future…and trying not to lose them in the mess.</description>
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		<title>By: Wally Curran</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-40480</link>
		<dc:creator>Wally Curran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 18:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-40480</guid>
		<description>Burning Friends</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burning Friends</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Attwood</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20613</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Attwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 03:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20613</guid>
		<description>In denigrating Noah&#039;s righteousness, Rashi paid too little attention to Ezekiel (14:12-20), who is a better bet for having the mind of God on things - as Rashi himself would surely have agreed.

So it&#039;s worth considering what the righteousness of Noah was &quot;in his generations.&quot;  It&#039;s clear that whatever else could be said of him, given God and the crowd, he listened to God although that put him out of step with the crowd.  He didn&#039;t let the &quot;possible&quot; turn him away from the truth.

If we underestimate how great such righteousness is, then of course we will underestimate the righteousness of Noah.  It&#039;s a lot like how God so esteems Jacob that he keeps calling himself the God of Jacob, while others reading Jacob&#039;s life are led to marvel at God&#039;s bad taste.

It&#039;s good to see where we assess things and people so differently from God, since it might turn out that God&#039;s foolishness is wiser than our wisdom.  His thoughts are not our thoughts, as Isaiah says - and what if His are better, even though we prefer our own?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In denigrating Noah&#8217;s righteousness, Rashi paid too little attention to Ezekiel (14:12-20), who is a better bet for having the mind of God on things &#8211; as Rashi himself would surely have agreed.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s worth considering what the righteousness of Noah was &#8220;in his generations.&#8221;  It&#8217;s clear that whatever else could be said of him, given God and the crowd, he listened to God although that put him out of step with the crowd.  He didn&#8217;t let the &#8220;possible&#8221; turn him away from the truth.</p>
<p>If we underestimate how great such righteousness is, then of course we will underestimate the righteousness of Noah.  It&#8217;s a lot like how God so esteems Jacob that he keeps calling himself the God of Jacob, while others reading Jacob&#8217;s life are led to marvel at God&#8217;s bad taste.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good to see where we assess things and people so differently from God, since it might turn out that God&#8217;s foolishness is wiser than our wisdom.  His thoughts are not our thoughts, as Isaiah says &#8211; and what if His are better, even though we prefer our own?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20612</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 13:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20612</guid>
		<description>Lindsey,

I don&#039;t see a contradiction between what you are saying and what Sharon is saying. Beginning with a reverence for G-d means acknowledging that we are not G-d, not limitless, not infinite, not omnipotent, and are bound to G-d and to G-d&#039;s creation (and by consequent, to the G-d chosen laws that govern it).

Sharon,

Thank you for sharing these pieces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsey,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see a contradiction between what you are saying and what Sharon is saying. Beginning with a reverence for G-d means acknowledging that we are not G-d, not limitless, not infinite, not omnipotent, and are bound to G-d and to G-d&#8217;s creation (and by consequent, to the G-d chosen laws that govern it).</p>
<p>Sharon,</p>
<p>Thank you for sharing these pieces.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20611</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 11:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20611</guid>
		<description>Re: What religion is for - I guess I would distinguish here between what human beings are for, and what religion, in a formal sense - ie, &quot;you should do this and not this in worship of G-d&quot; is for.  The narrative of Genesis seems to suggest that *religion* (as opposed to relationships with G-d) emerged gradually, as G-d picked a group of people to tutor and to increasingly control their actions.  But even his first relationship with humans begins with limits - &quot;don&#039;t eat that fruit.&quot;  I would suggest, at least that limiting our role in the world is a central project, but that&#039;s my opinion.

Re:Whether this is possible - I think it is, and will write more specifically about how to do this - I think it is really important to remember that this doesn&#039;t mean &quot;use no energy&quot; - for example about 12% of our existing electrical infrastructure could be adapted to a no carbon plan - it is hydro, or wind, or old nuclear.  And certainly it would be possible to do a substantial retrofit over 10 years.   Of course, since we won&#039;t do this most likely, soon it will be impossible.  But I do think it is important here to distinguish between the merely immensely difficult and the impossible.

Meanwhile, if you&#039;d like to see a fairly basic but viable plan for a 1-tonne carbon lifestyle, here&#039;s Kiashu&#039;s http://greenwithagun.blogspot.com/2008/02/one-tonne-carbon-lifestyle.html.  Or those of you who have done the riot know taht many of us have come down to two or three quite rapidly - and without widespread national support.  What could we do *with* that support?

Misi, I understand what you mean completely, and you are right. It isn&#039;t that I suspect we&#039;re likely to *do* most of this stuff, and yes, we&#039;d need massive support.  But I also don&#039;t think that it is impossible - which is what&#039;s so bloody frustrating.   We still have a decent shot at a much better future than the one we&#039;re facing, and it sucks to watch the chance dwindle away.  But yes, you can&#039;t do it entirely alone - no one can.

Sharon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: What religion is for &#8211; I guess I would distinguish here between what human beings are for, and what religion, in a formal sense &#8211; ie, &#8220;you should do this and not this in worship of G-d&#8221; is for.  The narrative of Genesis seems to suggest that *religion* (as opposed to relationships with G-d) emerged gradually, as G-d picked a group of people to tutor and to increasingly control their actions.  But even his first relationship with humans begins with limits &#8211; &#8220;don&#8217;t eat that fruit.&#8221;  I would suggest, at least that limiting our role in the world is a central project, but that&#8217;s my opinion.</p>
<p>Re:Whether this is possible &#8211; I think it is, and will write more specifically about how to do this &#8211; I think it is really important to remember that this doesn&#8217;t mean &#8220;use no energy&#8221; &#8211; for example about 12% of our existing electrical infrastructure could be adapted to a no carbon plan &#8211; it is hydro, or wind, or old nuclear.  And certainly it would be possible to do a substantial retrofit over 10 years.   Of course, since we won&#8217;t do this most likely, soon it will be impossible.  But I do think it is important here to distinguish between the merely immensely difficult and the impossible.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if you&#8217;d like to see a fairly basic but viable plan for a 1-tonne carbon lifestyle, here&#8217;s Kiashu&#8217;s <a href="http://greenwithagun.blogspot.com/2008/02/one-tonne-carbon-lifestyle.html" rel="nofollow">http://greenwithagun.blogspot.com/2008/02/one-tonne-carbon-lifestyle.html</a>.  Or those of you who have done the riot know taht many of us have come down to two or three quite rapidly &#8211; and without widespread national support.  What could we do *with* that support?</p>
<p>Misi, I understand what you mean completely, and you are right. It isn&#8217;t that I suspect we&#8217;re likely to *do* most of this stuff, and yes, we&#8217;d need massive support.  But I also don&#8217;t think that it is impossible &#8211; which is what&#8217;s so bloody frustrating.   We still have a decent shot at a much better future than the one we&#8217;re facing, and it sucks to watch the chance dwindle away.  But yes, you can&#8217;t do it entirely alone &#8211; no one can.</p>
<p>Sharon</p>
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		<title>By: Grandma Misi</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20610</link>
		<dc:creator>Grandma Misi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20610</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m having trouble with balance and patience....  My life is &quot;not grounded in political reality&quot; - nor is my agreement totally with this article and my spiritual beliefs.  Usually when I read your posts I am supported, refreshed, encouraged, invigorated.  This time (as happens occasionally) I feel discouraged and frustrated.  Not that I would change or diminish a single word of what you&#039;ve said.  This piece is brilliant.  It must be me.  But I picked up the same feeling with &quot;Steve&quot; and a few others&#039; comments.

I feel like a mouse in a maze.  A maze NOT of my own making, but living in it anyway. I can&#039;t seem to get out.  There are a few escape routes in this maze but the openings are so tiny that my FAT SELF (physically, emotionally, spiritually, societally) can&#039;t squeeze through no matter how much I want to be on the other side!  I don&#039;t mean to fatten myself with all those goodies that are constantly thrust before me.  Sheesh, I&#039;d be happy with just a carrot...  but chocolates, donuts, preservatives, and junk is all I&#039;m provided and encouraged to overconsume.

I feel like I&#039;m constantly chasing my tail, to avoid eating/enjoying, trying to run off the extra pounds of too much consumerism, energy, etc.  All I do is get tired, exhausted and I still don&#039;t fit through those little holes.  Or there is some big &quot;fatty&quot; standing in front of my escape route (i.e. some huge corportation or family obligation or my own illness and disability).

I&#039;m not saying that I&#039;m feeling hopeless or helpless.  Just frustrated.  There is nothing much that I can do to stem the tsunami coming my way.  I&#039;m hanging all my clothes to dry outside, where I can hear the neighbors gunning and running their giant truck motors in the yard (going nowhere) for hours at a time it seems.

I guess what I&#039;m trying to say is that I feel that G-d wants me to live a certain way, truly a sustainable, clean way of life but I&#039;ve been dropped into a civilization, person, and time, that makes this nearly impossible.  Baby steps and token &quot;green&quot; living is not enough.  AAAaaarggggghhhhhhhhh

Maybe it&#039;s time for a cup of organic, fair-trade tea huh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m having trouble with balance and patience&#8230;.  My life is &#8220;not grounded in political reality&#8221; &#8211; nor is my agreement totally with this article and my spiritual beliefs.  Usually when I read your posts I am supported, refreshed, encouraged, invigorated.  This time (as happens occasionally) I feel discouraged and frustrated.  Not that I would change or diminish a single word of what you&#8217;ve said.  This piece is brilliant.  It must be me.  But I picked up the same feeling with &#8220;Steve&#8221; and a few others&#8217; comments.</p>
<p>I feel like a mouse in a maze.  A maze NOT of my own making, but living in it anyway. I can&#8217;t seem to get out.  There are a few escape routes in this maze but the openings are so tiny that my FAT SELF (physically, emotionally, spiritually, societally) can&#8217;t squeeze through no matter how much I want to be on the other side!  I don&#8217;t mean to fatten myself with all those goodies that are constantly thrust before me.  Sheesh, I&#8217;d be happy with just a carrot&#8230;  but chocolates, donuts, preservatives, and junk is all I&#8217;m provided and encouraged to overconsume.</p>
<p>I feel like I&#8217;m constantly chasing my tail, to avoid eating/enjoying, trying to run off the extra pounds of too much consumerism, energy, etc.  All I do is get tired, exhausted and I still don&#8217;t fit through those little holes.  Or there is some big &#8220;fatty&#8221; standing in front of my escape route (i.e. some huge corportation or family obligation or my own illness and disability).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying that I&#8217;m feeling hopeless or helpless.  Just frustrated.  There is nothing much that I can do to stem the tsunami coming my way.  I&#8217;m hanging all my clothes to dry outside, where I can hear the neighbors gunning and running their giant truck motors in the yard (going nowhere) for hours at a time it seems.</p>
<p>I guess what I&#8217;m trying to say is that I feel that G-d wants me to live a certain way, truly a sustainable, clean way of life but I&#8217;ve been dropped into a civilization, person, and time, that makes this nearly impossible.  Baby steps and token &#8220;green&#8221; living is not enough.  AAAaaarggggghhhhhhhhh</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s time for a cup of organic, fair-trade tea huh?</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20609</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20609</guid>
		<description>Forgot to put my name on the above post.  Joseph</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgot to put my name on the above post.  Joseph</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20608</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20608</guid>
		<description>Re above: You said: “Religious life is, at its root, an attempt to set limits on our actions within the world”

  Perhaps this could be summed up as &quot;right relationship&quot; to all aspects of our existence, the Absolute and the entire Cosmos.

  Now if we could only persuade the elites who are keeping us in the Empire-and-war paradigm.  The wealth being wasted on Empire and war, and the terrible psychological and spiritual damage being done to the populations of these countries and to our soldiers, is a huge spiritual and resource drain on this country and, in fact, the whole world, a literal throwing-away of lives and resources that could be used for the Great Transition we now face.

  It was quite knowable, in 2002, that we could not afford to waste anymore wealth on war, that the proposed wars would be a disaster for the U.S. and the world, and yet few listened.   Oh well.

  As an example, it has been reported that the net cost for a gallon of gasoline used by our armed forces in Afghanistan comes to $400.00 per gallon!  This is madness!

  Besides individual and grass-roots efforts, we need national and international leadership that will work to change course and re-direct the wealth of the world toward funding the Great Transition, and so I advocate that we also, besides whatever else we are doing, need to keep spreading the word louder and louder: No More War! No More Empire! Hint: It needs to get loud enough to dominate the national discourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re above: You said: “Religious life is, at its root, an attempt to set limits on our actions within the world”</p>
<p>  Perhaps this could be summed up as &#8220;right relationship&#8221; to all aspects of our existence, the Absolute and the entire Cosmos.</p>
<p>  Now if we could only persuade the elites who are keeping us in the Empire-and-war paradigm.  The wealth being wasted on Empire and war, and the terrible psychological and spiritual damage being done to the populations of these countries and to our soldiers, is a huge spiritual and resource drain on this country and, in fact, the whole world, a literal throwing-away of lives and resources that could be used for the Great Transition we now face.</p>
<p>  It was quite knowable, in 2002, that we could not afford to waste anymore wealth on war, that the proposed wars would be a disaster for the U.S. and the world, and yet few listened.   Oh well.</p>
<p>  As an example, it has been reported that the net cost for a gallon of gasoline used by our armed forces in Afghanistan comes to $400.00 per gallon!  This is madness!</p>
<p>  Besides individual and grass-roots efforts, we need national and international leadership that will work to change course and re-direct the wealth of the world toward funding the Great Transition, and so I advocate that we also, besides whatever else we are doing, need to keep spreading the word louder and louder: No More War! No More Empire! Hint: It needs to get loud enough to dominate the national discourse.</p>
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		<title>By: AnneT</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20607</link>
		<dc:creator>AnneT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20607</guid>
		<description>&quot;A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, resilience, and beauty of the commonwealth of life.  It is wrong when it tends otherwise.&quot;   -- from  Right Relationship: Building a Whole Earth Economy by Peter G. Brown and Geoffey Garver.

Hard words to live by, when you think about it, but the only real moral choice we have.  But if you start with baby steps, it is amazing how far and quickly you will go over the span of a few years.

I&#039;m a Quaker and this book was written by Quakers (Religious Society of Friends).  Our eco-study group is reading this book this year, as is Philadelphia Yearly Meeting (PYM).  PYM has a study guide on it: www.pym.org/education/onebook.  I&#039;ll probably be doing a weekend workshop on it in the spring.  It&#039;s a great, approachable resource for raising awareness in this area and formulating individual and group action plans to better live on this earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, resilience, and beauty of the commonwealth of life.  It is wrong when it tends otherwise.&#8221;   &#8212; from  Right Relationship: Building a Whole Earth Economy by Peter G. Brown and Geoffey Garver.</p>
<p>Hard words to live by, when you think about it, but the only real moral choice we have.  But if you start with baby steps, it is amazing how far and quickly you will go over the span of a few years.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a Quaker and this book was written by Quakers (Religious Society of Friends).  Our eco-study group is reading this book this year, as is Philadelphia Yearly Meeting (PYM).  PYM has a study guide on it: <a href="http://www.pym.org/education/onebook" rel="nofollow">http://www.pym.org/education/onebook</a>.  I&#8217;ll probably be doing a weekend workshop on it in the spring.  It&#8217;s a great, approachable resource for raising awareness in this area and formulating individual and group action plans to better live on this earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsey</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20606</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20606</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you on the whole of this post except for one thing:

You said:  &quot;Religious life is, at its root, an attempt to set limits on our actions within the world&quot;

I (personally, YMMV) don&#039;t believe religious life exists to give us limits and rules.  I think it begins, or should begin with a relationship experience to reverence and worship our G-d...whichever G-d that may or may not be for you.   Then the rules flow out of that existence.  Any relationship has rules.  I just don&#039;t think we began with the rules.

The &quot;rules&quot; are so often OUR doing, in trying to shape a black and white relationship out of a very big grey area!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you on the whole of this post except for one thing:</p>
<p>You said:  &#8220;Religious life is, at its root, an attempt to set limits on our actions within the world&#8221;</p>
<p>I (personally, YMMV) don&#8217;t believe religious life exists to give us limits and rules.  I think it begins, or should begin with a relationship experience to reverence and worship our G-d&#8230;whichever G-d that may or may not be for you.   Then the rules flow out of that existence.  Any relationship has rules.  I just don&#8217;t think we began with the rules.</p>
<p>The &#8220;rules&#8221; are so often OUR doing, in trying to shape a black and white relationship out of a very big grey area!</p>
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		<title>By: BettyJane</title>
		<link>http://sharonastyk.com/2009/10/23/the-drowned-world-parshat-noah-and-the-face-of-g-d/comment-page-1/#comment-20605</link>
		<dc:creator>BettyJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sharonastyk.com/?p=1374#comment-20605</guid>
		<description>Obama has declared health emergency/crises.  We can expect changes in emergency care, public gatherings.  Now is the time to recheck our own emergency plans and supplies, people contact lists and what ifs.
If you begin feeling ill, take the S&amp;S seriously.  Take care of yourselves and seek help if necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama has declared health emergency/crises.  We can expect changes in emergency care, public gatherings.  Now is the time to recheck our own emergency plans and supplies, people contact lists and what ifs.<br />
If you begin feeling ill, take the S&amp;S seriously.  Take care of yourselves and seek help if necessary.</p>
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