Scenes from the Mall
Sharon December 15th, 2008
Last night, Eric and I did something we simply never do - we went to the mall. My mother was visiting, and kindly offered to babysit while the two of us went out to dinner, and since we do this sort of thing quite infrequently, we jumped at the chance to do a few errands uninterrupted and have a quiet meal together. Our first two choices for dinner were closed, due to the massive power outages that still plague our region. So, since we knew the lights were on, we ended up at the Crossgates mall. And I have to say, even to my doomy eyes, the experience was pretty unsettling.
The restaurants were reasonably busy, and there were cars in the parking lots. In fact, my initial reaction was that things didn’t seem to be as bad as I’d read here. My mother had stopped to have lunch with a friend earlier today, and said that the restaurant had just re-opened, after four days without power, but was packed with people who were content to drink coffee and sit somewhere with central heating. More than 10,000 people in my region are still without power, and we figured that this would push people into the malls. And while Sunday night isn’t peak shopping, generally speaking, an evening this close to the holidays would have been busy.
It wasn’t. The restaurant was less busy than I’d anticipated but not empty - but the mall itself was a ghost town. Here we were, 10 days before Christmas, on a night where for many the mall was warm, lighted, unlike home, and it was nearly empty. The people who were there simply weren’t buying - I counted two shopping bags during the 2 hours we spent wandering around, looking and listening in gloomy fascination at the demise of American shopping.
Every store was offering at least 30% off, often on everything, and often that over and above other discounts. Several stores had “store closing” or “going out of business” signs up already. Many stores had the appearance of having given up - the window of the Oshkosh children’s store, instead of cute baby mannequins in overalls was filled with half-packed boxes. One store, selling novelties and junk was literally deserted - we walked in and waited, called out and no one appeared for a good 15 minutes - we finally gave up (we didn’t want to buy anything, we were simply curious about whether the store was actually as abandoned as it appeared to be). No one stole anything - there really wasn’t anything to steal, or anyone to steal it. At one store, three employees had put up a nerf basketball hoop and were taking shots, clearly having given up on sales. Several stores looked as though their shelves hadn’t been neatened in several days.
The single line we saw was at the dollar store (not coincidentally, the only place we bought anything - I found a deck of Uno cards 2/$1 for the boys and clothespins for a buck) - otherwise, most stores had no customers at all. When we stopped and chatted with store employees, most of them said they’d had few, if any, sales.
Malls are not the place to restore your faith in humanity’s ability to survive hard times, and they tend to bring out a black irony in me. The sight of some poor kid trying to get anyone to taste a plastic sausage from Hickory Farms - he called to us the full length of the aisle, and practically chased us down the corridor - was funny. But of course, underlying the dark humor was the fact that this young man and all the employees who are paying for college (the mall is right next to SUNY Albany and draws many employees from there) and making a living are about to be the next victims in a round of layoffs. We know, for example, that if enrollments all off enough at SUNY, my husband will probably get the axe as well - that kid with the sausage is a link in a chain that goes to our family, and thousands of other places as well.
And you can see the calculations in people’s eyes - why buy today, when things are at 40% off? They will be 70% off after the holidays, when the chain goes bankrupt. And then, of course, they won’t be there at all. Eric and I stopped in Williams Sonoma to speculate on at what price we’d be willing to buy another Le Creuset dutch oven or a serious Wusthof butcher knife - the price we’d consider was well below the present valuation, but getting closer than they had been in years.
The problem, of course, is that everyone’s ability and willingness to buy is contracting faster than the prices are deflating - it doesn’t matter how cheap the dutch oven is, in a sense - I don’t want it badly enough to spend what money we have on it, not if Eric’s job is in jeapardy. A million such decisions and we have…detente, but not in a good way. Even at Borders I couldn’t find anything I really wanted to buy.
The stench of failure is death to retail - even those chains that survive, in bleak half-empty malls that have to cut their heating back because revenues are down will then suffer from the new atmosphere, the stench of disaster. Who goes to those kinds of bleak malls?
I tried to think about what we might do with this mall, and the other malls. Could it house students in a new, lower budget subsidized education system - they could grow food for the dining halls and make the storefronts into small dorm style apartments. Could one revitalize a small number of malls with local businesses? It is hard to imagine every needing anything on this scale again - there are shops that sell only caps, those that sell only shirts describing multi-gendered, nude sprting events, calendars, nauseatingly scented candles that poison the atmosphere, (I have to say, the demise of Yankee Candle will not bring me sorrow - I can only even walk past them from as far away as possible - the stench is repulsive), and overpriced stuffed animals. It is impossible to imagine the need for this much retail space in a more constrained society without this acute over-specialization. So little of this meets actual needs.
I admit, the sheer emptiness of it shocked even me - I knew how much retail sales had fallen, but knowing and seeing are two different things. What are you seeing in your local retail sector?
Sharon
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Interesting….I was at the Flatirons mall in Colorado a few months back and was musing that you could probably drive a speeding car from end to end without any danger of hitting someone. And the way store employees pounced on me when I wandered into a shop had an air of desperation. For the record, I did actually buy some things for Christmas presents that I couldn’t get back home, and at least one item was American made
Contrast that emptiness with our local New Zealand - generally I avoid the place because it is so crowded with people that it gets very frustrating trying to make your way around. Supposedly we’re in a recession here too, but it’s not keeping the crowds away. There definitely seems to be more pre-Christmas sales on this year here, but nobody going out of business yet.
Our mall was packed - I mean, literally, pushing-and-jostling-too-many-people-in-here packed.
But almost a half a million people, who live within a fifty mile radius of that mall, were without power on Saturday morning when I was at the mall (for one of my daughter’s friend’s birthday party at Chuck E. Cheese). They were there, mostly, for the heat and food, although I did see a lot of shopping bags, too.
After the mall, we went to Home Depot, because I wanted to get some things to make the easel for my granddaughter, and they were nearly empty. They had two employees for every customer and most of the employees were standing around waiting to help. I talked to the fellow who was helping me locate hinges, and he said that they’d sold almost a million dollars worth of generators on Friday (the first day of the power outage), all of their heaters, three-quarters of their flashlights and half their batteries.
I still see some people shopping, and some of the things people are seeing in other areas, aren’t as present here, although we do have lots of “Store Closing” and “Going Out of Business” signs. It looks stark now, but this is nothing to the bleakness come January, when all of the pretty lights come down.
Sorry, I do my best not to ever set foot in a mall and the closest to me (around 5 miles away) is huge and very prosperous (or, at least, has always been — at one time they had the highest sales per square foot in the country) and will likely be one of the last to acquire “the stench of disaster”. But I do get the metro newspaper (The Oregonian) and the ad inserts this holiday season are the most numerous I’ve ever seen). If not “the stench of failure”, they certainly exude an air of desperation.
Meanwhile, the classified ad section (the help wanteds) gets smaller and smaller. (In the past, the size of the help wanteds has been an economic indicator. Now, with the Internet, I don’t if that still works or not.) The paper itself is shrinking as merchants cut back on display advertising. The auto dealerships which used to buy pages and pages of just about every issue, now band together to buy a full page pleading with the public to check out their selections — the pictures always seem to be SUVs.
The state government announced that Oregon’s “official” unemployment rate increased 0.9 percentage points to 8.1% in November, surprising “authorities” because of how much larger it was than the national “official” rate which only went of 0.2 percentage points. What do you bet that next month, when they announce December’s rate, they “adjust” November’s rate upward rather substantially.
Well, I’m not the best person to weigh in here since I haven’t been to a shopping mall in two years and that one was in Sierra Vista, AZ, not exactly known as the shopping mecca of the world.
My coworkers who do shop retail more frequently than I gripe good naturedly about the lines during the holiday season but I haven’t heard anything grim. There have been a few chain stores that are closing but that’s a normal occurrence up in these latitudes. Some stores just don’t make it in Alaska even during economic prosperity. The last big chain to open its doors (to my knowledge) was Bed, Bath and Beyond which saw lots of action last year when it opened. How it’s doing now, I couldn’t say.
Anchorage is usually three to five years behind the times for the rest of the US. Not that I think an economic collapse stateside would take five years to be felt here but it might come on slowly and gradually. My observation is that we’ve been experiencing something like a recession here for quite a while so things would have to get really awful - like the military pulling out of the state - before we’d see dramatic changes.
Kerri in AK
I try to avoid the mall, it may be over a year since I was last in one. I am sort of making a game out of it now. I thus have no idea how our local mall is doing, but they must not be doing very much better than anywhere else.
I generally try to avoid the big box stores of all types. The only exception is Home Depot & Lowes or Office Depot when I can’t find what I need at a local independent store, a few trips per year to Sams to stock up on a few bulk non-perishable items, and my wife frequents the big craft stores for stuff for her hand-crafted papermaking/gift card sideline. Generally, if I can’t make do without it and can’t buy it from a local independent merchant, I’ll try to buy it over the Internet.
I’ll finish with one nice story. My small town has a downtown festival every first Friday in December, where all the stores stay open into the evening instead of closing by 6PM. (As I said, it IS a small town.) This is maybe the main time each year other than July 4th when just about EVERYONE in town is together in one place at the same time, the main community event of the year. It is always a fun time, everyone sees lots of people they know (including some people that one doesn’t see all that often). I don’t know how well the local merchants did this year, but lots of people at least looked inside their stores. I did buy some locally-made craft pottery for a gift for my parents. I usually do try to patronize at least one of the local craftspersons to encourage them to keep it up. At least this is business that wasn’t going to the mall or a big box store. This annual event is an experience you just don’t get at any mall, even if bundling up for the cold weather is the (small) price that must be paid.
I saw an article recently about a former jail that was turned into a homeless shelter.
I think that would be a fabulous idea for these defunct malls. Of course, most malls would make HUGE homeless shelters, and the thought of actually filling them is a little frightening….
There isn’t a mall within 100 miles of here….. yet. Someone is building one with private funds in a field that previously produced food. They are advertizing space for big box retailers but I wonder how many want to lay out the moeney to put in a new store. It is oil and gas boom area so we’re not doing the same things as the rest of the country.
I rarely go into the mall - other than if we have to buy something from one of the anchor stores - and thats only if I haven’t been able to find said item elsewhere - (like thrift or goodwill first or yikes,,,,walmart)
I used to like to go and get a coffee and people watch and listen to the Christmas mood with all the decorations until I worked at the mall one year in college….that did it for me - after that experience I rarely went to the mall….like I said before unless I have to get something like a dress shirt for my hubby at JCPenney or a tool at Sears
I was at Wheaton Plaza mall in Wheaton, MD last night and it was jammed with people. My son and I could barely find 2 chairs to sit in in the packed food court. If no one is going to the mall, or buying, you’d never know it around here. And Wheaton is a poor-ish high minority area too.
In Australia a lot of people are receiving economc stimulus cheques (’cause our govt saw how well it worked in the US. ha)- so there is going on - but mainly i think people are going to the malls to get out of the heat. a lot of stores are having sales, and there is media coverage of a downturn in retail sales etc - but i dont think it is as bad here …yet.
we have already bought the presents for the children during the year and have already stopped gift giving amongst extended family and friends - excet for a few ghomemade bits and peices. This year my husband and I decided not to give each other gifts because there isn’t anything we need, or want to spend money on. so we are being Un-Australian and saving our economic stimulus cheque.
I had to go to the mall last week to get my glasses fixed. One tiny little screw and new nose pads. It was quiet and no one was shopping, lots of sales. But what I noticed was that, for the most part, those things on sale had no practical value. Frilly New Years Eve dresses being the most notable. Not something I would be putting in my closet.
Here in Montreal, at least from my personal experience, there has been little to no evidence of slowing down in retail. Chapters (equivalent to Borders) had all ten cash registers running and still had a queue of maybe 75 people Sunday afternoon.
Fairview shopping Centre in the subarb where I live has it’s parking lot as full as any other past Christmas season. I think here we will only see what the damage is after the Christmas season is over, there are no hints about pending failures so far.
Mall? That’s that place at the other end of town with a bunch of cars circling?
Things are drying up here. Of course, nobody admits it. We’re still one of the “top 3 most overvalued markets in the US” as far as housing and for some reason the entire town is striving to pretend like we’re still some uber-trendy resort town. We’re not. Crime is spiraling upwards, the city is out of money, retail is crashing hard.
Should be interesting to see where it ends. I may drive across the mountain to visit Alan
Here Down Under we’ve not seen anything like this slowdown of the economy. It’s a bit sluggish, and some of the larger and more greedy companies are cutting back, a few of the mid-sized companies which were badly-run and on the edge of failure anyway are going under, but largely we’re alright.
Some stuff of general interest:
Dead Malls - yep, someone goes around and photographs these places and tells their story.
Big Box Reuse - box stores and malls which closed down and got made into schools, apartments, community buildings and so on.
I have a vision of turning my own local mall - Chadstone - into a big greenhouse. It has a lot of glass roofs, big interior space, and lots of plumbing. The car park could become an orchard…
I don’t know about malls being repurposeed, but I can see open air markets springing up in the parking lots.
NJ seems to the the capital of strip malls. The one I go to most often (it has a gaming store where I buy education card games) and a dollar store were I used to get a lot of stuff for the soup kitchen (as well as for me) is struggling. The Chinese Take-a-way and the bagle palce aren’t as buys. The hardware store that closed 2 years ago is still unrented, as the the consigment store (which quickly fell victim to misunagment months after it opened) is empty after 18 or 20 months.
Now the dollar store has gone. I’d noticed it had changed hands about a year ago, and the shelves were suddenly half empty all the time, but hoped the new owners were having start up cash flow problems. Then over night a couple of weeks ago, it closed.
It’s a real loss: it sold actually food — huge bags of Indian rice, large bags of bean — and other bulk food for the mostly hispanic and east asian people who live in the large apartment blocks in walking distance, not to mention soap and toothpaste and all that good stuff at very low prices.
This strkes me as an example of the downward spiral we are in — a store that catered (and did it well) to people with little money goes bust, leaving those people having to go further to spend more for food and other sutff,
“nude sprting events”
Hm. Can’t tell you how fascinated I am, speculating about which vowel it was that you accidentally left out… :- )
Malls nausiate me. The crowds, traffic ect do not seem to be experiencing any kind slow down here. Even with WAMU laying off 3000 workers by the end of January — I have been to the mall maybe twice in the past 2 years and it was literally so crowded that I turned around (no place to park) and this was not Christmas time. I am in the Seattle area maybe we are just slow to feel the pain in the Northwest… Anyone around here experiencing something different? I would be interested to know (:
There’s a chain of thrift stores here in Chicago called “Unique Thrift”, located in several small strip shopping centers. They’re very very busy right now. It’s a privately-owned business that gets its merchandise through “Purple Heart Vietnam Veterans” phone solicitations to suburbanites. Drivers pick up bags and boxes monthly from its participating donors’ front doors. Donations are high-quality despite economy. Store stock is still replenished daily. Stores are clean, well-lit, and staff is polite. The charity gets $1/bag, and the reseller gets the goods. This business has a high profit margin for a nearly free supply of merchandise. But Unique marks its mostly excellent condition and often nearly new merchandise at prices far lower than Chicago’s Salvation Army and Goodwill stores, and that’s a vital community service that has substantial “give back” value too. Many people shop at Unique, regardless of socio-economic background. Better value than Target or Wallmart, for better made merchandise.
I live near a mall in Oklahoma City and the parking lot seems to be packed, as does the mall. OKC is an oil and gas area, but with the price dives I’m not sure how well the oil and gas companies are doing.
In Denver, the parking lot at the Cherry Creek Mall had a great farmer’s market every Wednesday and Saturday. I’d like to see that here - we’re in a very central location.
[…] Casaubon’s Book » Blog Archive » Scenes from the Mall Last night, Eric and I did something we simply never do - we went to the mall. My mother was visiting, and kindly offered to babysit while the two of us went out to dinner, and since we do this sort of thing quite infrequently, we jumped at the chance to do a few errands uninterrupted and have a quiet meal together. Our first two choices for dinner were closed, due to the massive power outages that still plague our region. So, since we knew the lights were on, we ended up at the Crossgates mall. And I have to say, even to my doomy eyes, the experience was pretty unsettling. […]
I hate malls, but had to go to ours awhile back (I’m talking like September) to get a link fixed on my watch. (Only jeweler in town.) There were four people in the mall that day, not counting me and my husband or any of the store employees. The problem is, driving past lately I haven’t seen more cars in the parking lot. Our mall has a limited lifespan anyway. They want to turn it into a state history museum but I really don’t see it happening.
Hmmm, repurposing malls. Well, they’re already handicapped-accesible with bathrooms on each level, or, like mine, they are only one level. Why not housing for eldelry folks, similar to the college dorm idea; dig up a good bit of the parking lot as gardens and the rent (and a couple apartments) go to some caretakers who manage the plots and cook the food. Would be less expensive than your “assisted living” facilities now. If you got to live and eat there in return for your work, you might even be able to draw some RNs and their families to provide care for those who need it.
I hate to imagine the situation for which my other immediate idea becomes feasible– the low-tech hospital.
There are three strip malls near us anchored by big thrift stores - a Savers, a Unique, and an ARC Value Village. Oh, and on farther away but on the bus line anchored by the DAV store. So four. We have enough junk to run an economy on endless repair & recirculating for years, I think.
I just bought some blankets at the Unique yesterday, it’s way out in the ‘burbs in a mall with a movie theater, a Mexican bakery, a liquor store, and some other stuff I didn’t look at (probably a chinese restaurante and a tobacco store.) The one closest to us used to be *really* useful - laundromat, thrift store, ReUse center (construction materials), hardware store, liquor store, some little restaurants.
I grew up in a series of small, dying towns with dim, half-empty malls. They can always put in a DOT office, a trucking company headquarters (lots of parking!), a skating rink, a skate park, a daycare, a public library branch (one little town I lived in, the public library was sandwiched in between a pizza place and a call center office). As they get more decrepit, they get cheaper - startup bike shops, multi-stall resale shops, places that rent out tools or art supplies to be used on-site. Shoe repair.
I notice on Kiva that a lot of the entrepreneurs are doing things like renting out internet time on computers in their living rooms - Internet Cafe may not be a dead business venture yet. And if people start doubling up on living quarters, there will be more of a market for “party rooms” for events, and places where you can go play cards or RPGs or rent a big kitchen to make Christmas cookies. The VFW halls of my youth made their cash on bingo, Friday night dinners, and wedding receptions.
Your description is not unlike my own from last summer (http://daveeriqat.wordpress.com/2008/07/18/economic-conditions-from-ground-level/).
Dave
Ahhh…but couldn’t some of us be adding to the empty malls and vacant storefronts? “Buy Nothing Challenge?” “Americans live beyond their needs…are WAY to affluent? Wasteful?” I couldn’t agree more, but at the same time I think how not buying anything but food, shelter, and warmth is certainly not helping the economy much. I see our country going through a change… a change of no more chain stores, no more malls just like you are witnessing at the mall. Many folks will be out of work and what will they do? Whatever they can to make a buck…maybe there will be many, many more flea markets in those empty mall parking lots; people selling their wares — be it produce they grew, things they made, maybe even a unique energy saving device. Anything to make a buck - but it WILL be local. And other folks out of work will be flocking to these markets — to save money, find a bargain. Maybe a nice pair of fairly new jeans that someone outgrew and has on their flea market stand. I believe you, Sharon, know all about this coming future! People will know what to do — they are survivors - and will figure it out, locally of course!
My daughter works at a WalMart in NH where many households are still without power. They sold out instantly on generators and other survival type items but Christmas shopping in general is way, way down. I visited a mall here in MA. The shops were without power for a couple days. After they reopened, the only shops whose parking lots were filled were TOYS R US and Home Depot. Not much else going on.
I knowthat our local retail sales are down but there still are people im the mall closest to me. this mall include a Mervyns and a Linens’n Things that are now almost bare to the walls.
I was at a bigger mall on “Black Friday” and it had plenty of people in the mall and in the stores. Maybe in other years it was even more packed but it seemed busy enough that day. there were plenty of mark downs on merchandise that day, I can only imagine what it is today. Sear particularlys had everything marked way down and racks and racks of clothing everywhere with at least 20% off.
I like going to malls and people watching and browsing stores but I’ve stayed out of them this past year or so because it’s just too easy to “pick up” something(s) that you never intended to buy.
namaste,Shamba
I’m in Ohio and I was at the mall to buy a Christmas present last Thursday (during the day) and it was busy. I only went to JCPenney’s and one other store, but there were a lot of people there at 11 AM. I was surprised to see so many people out. My husband works in retail and sales are up at his store. I think that Ohio’s economy has been pretty crummy for so long that we don’t even notice it getting a little worse.
I live near the Tacoma Mall in Tacoma, Washington. When you drive past the parking lot is full. I remarked to my friend, when I saw this - “What recession?”
If there is one, they didn’t tell the folks here about it, judging from the crowds. Are people going to the malls just to see how cheap things are going to be? That was my only reason. How much off retail can I get a stock pot for? That’s an actual investment for cooking-a good one that will last me for years. I found one for $49.00 that was marked down from $79.00, but mostly the prices really were not that cheap. Not like one would expect them to be if the economy is as bad as everyone says. I do know people who can’t find jobs, and the job ads here are slim pickens unless its health care or some other specialty. But everything looks normal as if there is no slow down. Run the cards up one last time before they go bust? I can only guess.
So-what’s it all mean? I know that our neck of the woods is always about a year or two behind the rest of the country but the meltdown has been going now for a year or so, so maybe it just hasn’t hit yet? My neighborhood hardware store guy says sales are way down for them. I know folks who didn’t get their promised x-mas bonus, or overtime. I know another friend who is making a ton of money working private in home elder care for people that have money, but that is again, a special field and she works a lot of hours. So-I am basically confused and sometimes do not know what to believe about the economy. I wonder what this time next year will bring. I am preparing anyway, regardless. Rather be safe than sorry.
I do not go to malls because I live too far away from them. I also hate shopping from the get go and I always feel smothered in a mall (and in the changing rooms especially) so I am not a good mall bellwether.
The other day I was at Home Depot (a good 40 mile drive one way) for some sort of solution for child proofing our living room (long story - I want to put up those plexiglass walls you see around a hockey rink but its a tad expensive)
I also wanted to get some solar powered lights to put in the hen house so that they can have longer days and start laying again but, upon consultation with the husb I put the perfect set of solar lights back.
Being pissed as I was, as I was leaving a home depot worker tried to stop me to sell me lord knows what and, with tears in my eyes and anger in my voice, I told him I had just been laid off and could not buy anything (I was laid off a few days before but it was still hurting and I was angry about the wasted trip) .. I am betting he might have thought I had JUST been laid off.
He looked stricken and apologized and said he understood… I was too overcome with emotion to reassure him that it was ok, just rushed out into the torrential rain with my 2 year old.
I am guessing this wasnt the first time he heard this story - Home Depot was empty and the few guys hanging out looked sort of lost - shopping for man-doo-dads (lord only knows what) with little vigor.
ToysRUs was full of people but by then I was in such a foul mood that I made Grinch look the soul of christmas and so I barely noticed much at all.
I wanna say bah humbug to this whole commercialism holiday because its causing so much extracurricular suffering for entire families, eeeesh. The Pressure.
They say that consumer confidence is the lowest it’s been in a long time but you wouldn’t know it here in Ontario. Our local shops are packed and a few weeks ago in Toronto I had to circle the parking lot for about fifteen minutes until I found a spot to park. It would seem that most people don’t foresee the tougher times ahead.
Um, are you saying that Yankee Candle is going out of business? Please say yes!
i was just on 4th street in Berkeley, CA: the lifestyle ghetto: Restoration Hardware, Pottery Barn, Anthropologie, Williams Sonoma, DWR, etc. It was packed! Lots of people carrying purchases. We were there to go to the vivarium to look at snakes, but couldn’t resist ducking into Crate and Barrel, to see what was what. I saw some great wine glasses at 1.50 apiece, but the line to pay was so long, I passed. It tastes just as good from a jar.
Stores seem to be *almost* as crowded as ever here (Dallas-Fort Worth). They’re not quite as jam-packed as years past, but nearly so. Also, I’ve noticed a definite negativity in the overall mood of other shoppers. Most years, when I’m out Christmas shopping, other people seem to be pretty pleasant for the most part (there are always exceptions, of course). Store employees have mostly been nice, but nearly all the other shoppers I’ve encountered have been really surly and rude. I’ve noticed this everywhere I’ve gone.
Tara
No malls where I live, no stoplights, sometimes there is so little in the stores I can’t spend money if I try. About 100 world class beaches though, all less than 20 minutes away. I’ve lived here for 17 years. The Post Peak Oil life? Been there for a long time already. The Economy? We don’t have one of those either, so if yours has gone missing too, they may have both run off together. Later.
I haven’t been to the mall this year (making a “Zero Dollar Christmas” goal for those outside my immediate family this year — homemade, recycled, etc.) but my husband made his annual trek to Toys ‘R Us (for our five-year-old son) in northwest Florida yesterday and just couldn’t believe what he saw.
Yes, there were people shopping but there were no lines. Where he once had to stand in a line that wrapped through the store, he was able to walk straight up to the counter, no waiting required. And every conversation he overheard throughout involved money problems.
The saddest thing, as he pointed out, is that you know kids are the ones people will shop for if they have any means at all to shop. If they’re not buying children’s gifts at Christmas, you know they’re not buying at all.
In Chattanooga, we have a mall that was converted to a small business mall - there still is a food court, but it’s for the employees and owners of the tiny firms that work there. That may be the future of your mall, if the government ever realizes that it needs to help small businesses if it will ever pull out of this mess.
In my little town things are not as bad, because they have always been bad. Welcome to Appalachia. haha.
I didn’t make it to the mall tonight (not that I wanted to - malls freak me out something fierce), but the bus depot is there, and it looked full, even as early as 4 pm. I stopped in at Chapters to look at gardening books, and they were full - lots of people in the store, and a decent sized line even with every cash running.
I don’t know what any of this means. A lot of local manufacturing plants are undergoing massive layoffs because of the auto industry issues, so by rights there shouldn’t be so many people out shopping (or so I would have thought). But it looks like, right now at least, the economic issues haven’t caught up enough with people’s desire to consume.
Kerri in Alaska,
Target is empty. And it only opened 2 months ago. I think Alaska will suffer less than the lower 48 because it never rose as high in the first place. We never had a housing bubble so there aren’t that many foreclosures here.
That said, I think the caveat is the price per barrel of oil and the push to get the gasline going. We are operating a state budget based on 85$ per barrel in the reality of 45$ per barrel. This will affect everything. Like Sharon said….we may see trash not being picked up and plows not plowing. Already, the plows don’t come down my cul de sac anymore like they used to. The 8 houses at my end of the street have to pack the snow down on our own.
I worry about Jerry’s job as a teacher. if the education budget gets cut, well that’s says it all I guess.
I have no idea what to think about the lower 48. I really fear for you all down there. I think the situation is much much more precarious and the people, well, I have no ideas. In Alaska, people don’t have family around so there is almost a sense that we have to be family to eachother because of our isolation.
Sharon, what is your perspective on the attitide of everyday folks and how they will weather hardship? Are folks pulling together right now with all the power outages? And Sharon, you made no prediction about war. What do you foresee in the foriegn affairs area? I have an 18 year old son…that’s why I’m keen to know.
Love,
Shelley
Although our mall in the Twin Cities area was pleasantly full last Friday, I had absolutely no trouble finding a parking spot. My memory of past Christmas seasons seems to be that the lots were full to the last parking space.
The newspapers here are full of store closings and layoffs in many major industries including 3M, a large company headquartered in St. Paul.
My conclusion is that people are still shopping for the holidays, but at a somewhat reduced rate of consumption. Like so many other folks, we prefer the local stores and have decided to gift books and food to our friends this year.
Sharon, my husband who teaches at a small junior college in the western part of the United States was given notice today that his job might be eliminated. He, along with 40 others, were given this wonderful Christmas present. I believe only about 1/2 will lose their jobs…I believe his job will not survive the cut. We are not going to the mall; we are not exchanging presents with one another. I am not baking or sending Christmas cards…the first time in 20 years of marriage. In some ways its liberating. I have always had some sort of food supply…right now some wheat or spaghetti sounds like a nice Christmas present and you can’t get that at the mall. I enjoy reading your columns.
We just got our power back tonight- yay. We hate malls but last night we went to the closest mall to be somewhere with lights and heat (and it has a bookstore). A fair number of people who live in our part of MA take the short trip to Nashua for tax free shopping- I found a much needed and very nice winter coat for me 70% off at Macy’s. There was no line to pay and the store was dead. The mall parking lot was full and there were a lot of people walking around but not many had shopping bags. Even the bookstore had no lines. I believe most of them were just hanging around in a warm place like us.
I’m in Seattle. I was just in the downtown Nordstrom two weeks ago, looking for a payphone of all things because I had left my cell phone at home. I was really shocked at all of the well-heeled people who seemed to be quite serious about their shopping. The live piano player really added to surreal atmosphere. I actually felt a little ill, wondering who are these people??? Either they’re in denial or I’ve been reading too much Sharon Astyk. : ) I suppose there is lots of pent up wealth here. So it will take awhile for the economic mess to be felt as it has in other parts of the country.
The malls in our town are still a little frantic but it sounds like, from what I’ve heard, that people are being drawn in mainly by the 70% off items — and doing a better job of not being suckered by those items into buying things that didn’t drop in price. Retail people that I know, they look to me like they haven’t slept in weeks.
We have a small-box chain out here with some employee ownership: Bi-Mart. It reminds me of Keillor’s “Ralph’s-Pretty-Good-Grocery”: “If you can’t get it at Ralph’s, you can probably get along without it.” They have really savvy buyers who find recent not-the-most-popular items of decent name brands in remaindered lots, and put whole pallets of the stuff in some of the aisles, and you can find good prices on household, sewing supplies, pharmacy, very sensible clothing, plumbing, tools, paint, ammunition, garden stuff, some groceries (not so much) — close to Walmart pricing without succumbing to the Walmart god. Everything from a canoe to a get-well card under one small roof, where they KNOW YOUR NAME. I hardly ever go anywhere else to buy anything, except lumber, fencing, and bags of oats …
Anne,
I’m with you in feeling this surreal sense of how business as usual is going on all around. I was in a nice local breakfast joint- a bit pricey with lots of yummy locally grown food on the menu. The place was packed with smiling people. I asked the waitress if the economic “slump” had impacted business. She said it hadn’t been better in months.
Still I look around with eyes that see things differently than others. Even different than my own husband’s. I’m so curious how this plays out over the years to come. Will I be the one with the doomer colored glasses?
I was at a meeting the other night and debating about how we best advance the local food system in our area. The board chair said “we’ve been having this conversation for two years!” I said “I hope we are having this same conversation one year from now.” He totally didn’t know what I meant. I mean– I hope the conversation is still about the big picture system building issues– not about how to get food to hungry neighbors.
Kathy
In Australia it’s business as usual…. it was scary reading this post. It’s SO not what happening here.
Here in Morgantown, WV, we have the “New Mall” and the “Old Mall” (or Dirt Mall, ala Mallrats). The Old Mall used to have a Walmart as one of the anchor stores, but Walmart has since moved about 1/4 mile down the road. The Old Mall now has a very large Goodwill, a Chinese Buffet, a glass store, a few random consignment shops, a few restaurants, and Teletech (a big telemarketing firm). The Old Mall also has occasional indoor flea markets. So while it is definitely struggling, it has found a sort of niche in used goods.
The New Mall (which isn’t terribly new, just newer than the old mall), has all the usual mall stores. I was there just this past weekend and while it was quite crowded, there were several stores having going out of business sales, and even the stores staying in business had pretty significant mark-downs on pretty much everything (I was there to get my husband a hooded Columbia sweatshirt, on sale for $24, with an additional 30% off, for xmas).
Hey Sharon,
They were all at Colonie Center! Seriously, I enter a mall once, perhaps twice a year. Sunday just happened to be that day and it was PACKED.
I only just got power last night and I remember that my thinking was based on “must be home before dark, must be home before dark, must get candles and lanterns ready, must feed children and do dishes before dark”, etc. and I’m wondering if that was the case for others on Sunday. Coming home to a dark house is creepy even for the well prepared. According to National Grid and NYSEG 110,000 people were without power on Sunday in the greater Capital District so perhaps that had a bit to do with the low numbers? I did, however, marvel at the number of signs advertising huge discounts on EVERYTHING in the stores, and I too saw many stores with going out of business signs on them. I agree that it is dire.
Heidi
Here in a fairly propserous area the malls are still busy but not as jam-packed as previous years. Not by a long shot. Business is definitely way up at Wally World and Target, though. They are as jammed as ever -but a lot of more one-time upscale shoppers are going there now.
Here in Minneapolis the mall parking lots have appeared full, although I have no first hand experience of the scene inside this season. Many people may be trying to escape the cold more than shopping. Last weekend I went to Costco and found the parking lot overflowing with cars and aisles filled with overflowing carts. Similar scene at the Target store. Imagine both those retailers were doing well in food sales and less so on non-essentials. On the news last night was a story about Best Buy offering “buy outs” to their employees. If they don’t get enough takers (4,000) lay-offs are a coming. Imagine it’s getting tough to sell flat screen tv’s and home stereos. It’s not going to be a Happy New Years for many in the retail business.
I can’t speak for malls, because I never ever go (more out of safety reasons; the one we have nearby is a hotbed for gang crime).
But the local walmart is hopping and you would think there was NO recession going on. I detest walmart too, but it is really my only option when I need something more than the grocery store offers. So when I do drudge into the big box store, like last week, I am marvelled at the crowd there and the tons of stuff they are buying.
Kind of makes me want to shout: “Don’t you folks know we’re in a recession????”
Here in Ohio - seems usual at the mall- lots of discount signs though. Target was PACKED- not a spot in the parking lot.
peace.
Anne and KathyD
Remember how the orchestra played as the Titanic sank in order to try and calm the panic? Doesn’t that surreal feeling in the malls and stores seem similar?
Still trouble by the idea of converting malls to living space. How are we going to heat them, for a start?
Here we have good malls and bad malls. The good malls seem to be doing fine. One of the bad malls is actually down to a single store. They have boarded off most of the lower level, but you can still walk through the completely empty upper level. The one store that’s left? A combination of a catalog sales outlet, head shop (drug paraphernalia) and wine making kits. There is also a tax preparation office that has a separate entrance.
That said, this isn’t going to affect everywhere the same way. Some places won’t notice the downturn for a bit. If you live in a wealthy area, odds are good that you are fine right now. Some places will look like business as usual, but the dollars left are being spread over a smaller area.
good heavens, reading about all these sales makes me think maybe I should go shopping, something I avoid between thanksgiving and christmas! and a slight concern that stores won’t exist after new years…
Woodfield mall in suburban chicago is supposedly a big destination. as I went past it on the bus last night, the parking lot didn’t seem terribly full.
Just outside Houston, First Colony Mall’s parking lot was jammed Saturday. We didn’t actually go into the mall because we were just going to eat at a nearby restaurant so I couldn’t say whether people were buying but there were certainly no empty parking places.
Here in Northern VA it seems like business as usual. I went in to Borders to kill some time before an appointment and the checkout line snaked halfway through the store, all registers running. Target is also extremely busy.
I don’t know what the mall is like, I haven’t been in one in ages, but my stepdaughter works as a seasonal at the Gap there and says it’s pretty busy there.
I don’t know- the housing bubble has popped pretty dramatically here- there are foreclosures all over the place and my county is one of the harder hit in the state, but people still seem to be shopping like they always did, and restaurant parking lots are full. Maybe it’s all the federal government/defense contractor jobs here-we seem to be somewhat insulated from mass layoffs, for now, but it would seem to me like people shouldn’t be counting on that to continue. We sure aren’t.
Over at Greenpa’s, someone was saying as how buildings like malls aren’t built to last more than 20 or 30 years. So maybe what to do with the buildings isn’t so much an issue as is how to keep people from squatting there and being hurt as they fall apart?
Haven’t seen anything different around here with the mall than is normal for this time of year, the mall’s in the university town and it’s finals’ week. What’s shopping? (Winco is attached to the mall, or I wouldn’t even be over there. There’s nothing I buy in the mall.)
We were talking about the possibility of layoffs at the U, and we don’t think they’d affect him yet. The University will have to roll the clock back 20 years on its technology before they can lay off the guys who keep it operating. Right now, exams are all taken online. It’ll be a while: they will have to reaquire the capability to work offline. Also, we’ve talked to a fair number of people who think the way to survive a recession is to go back for a (nother) Master’s or Doctorate. You get out of the work force for a couple years and when the economy starts to recover you have a nice shiny degree to help you get a good job again.
I guess it was probably a good plan through the last few recessions. We’ll see if the recovery is good enough this time for it to work out okay.
From St. Louis, the mall my husband sometimes shops at has reportedly been doing poorly for a year or two, with more and more empty stores and gang problems. We drove past it last Saturday and the parking lots were mostly empty - ten shopping days before Christmas, that has to be a very bad sign! There was a reasonably long line at Borders, if not the kind of hordes I have seen in previous years. Maybe bookstores are doing well because you can get a really useful or entertaining present more cheaply there. My family has a $20 present limit and almost all I’m giving are trade paperbacks.
Just came back from the “Village” mall in Marin County, CA. At this time of year the mall is typically packed, with parking attendants and long waits for a spot, and a real crush once inside. This year there was no valet service and I drove right into a place and saw many others available as well. None of the stores were packed, it was all very civilized - if one considers malls an example of civilization. I was in and out in about 10 minutes, largely because all the stores I was interested in were no longer there.
Arthur
I was at the grandaddy of all malls, the Mall of America on Sunday. It was busy, but not Christmas busy. If that is the Christmas rush there are a lot of stores in trouble there.
Well, this blog entry got me curious, so I drove off to my Walmart and Target. Crowds were big enough to tell me that it was no weeknight in late January, but neither store had anything approaching mid December crowds either. Target only had 4 of its dozen plus registers open while Walmart had about 7 out of 20 possible stalls open. Lines were fairly long at Walmart due to this shortage of registers while checkout lines at Target were nothing to complain about at all.
Basically, while the stores weren’t dead, you could tell there was a sickness going on.
As for converting malls to living space…wow, I just can’t envision that. I mean, there is no window space really, even if you installed lots of new windows around the perimeter. Then too, the cheap steel construction just won’t last long at all, especially the flat roofs. Such commercial roofs last 15 years tops, and usually start leaking like crazy well before that. The typical arsenal of rooftop HVAC units rust out and die in a dozen years too, even if you could find the gas and electricity to keep them running, they’ll bankrupt you.
Speaking from S. Minneapolis here:
I can’t speak as to the malls, really — haven’t been to an actual indoor *mall* since we tried to go on the Friday after Thanksgiving. (I refuse to call it Black Friday — sounds like the day the stock market crashed in ‘29!) I usually don’t go that day or *any* holidays, having worked retail myself, but we were making an attempt for some of the few presents we are buying this year. It was a no -go — cars circling the parking lot, and even the streets behind the place backed up to the point that we decided to abandon the mission. Typically, I can’t recall right now what we were looking for. Must have been real important…. ;)**
For those in MN, the mall in question was Southtown, the strip mall just off of 494 and Penn. I usually shop at the Hancock there for my business. I avoid the Sprawl of America as much as I can.
What I *can* really comment on is the number of “For Lease” signs I’ve seen up in store fronts over the last 7 or 8 months, since I started paying attention. The total number is a little scary, and keeps slowly growing. Granted, many of them are on a major local street that has been undergoing MAJOR renovations over the past few (3?) years, where traffic was a mess and people started avoiding the place altogether. But I’m noticing that they are staying open, and not getting leased again in a few months, the way it has seemed to work in the past.
I have noticed a few odd shortages at the grocery store. Nothing major, and not out for a long time, but shelves durn near empty. And that’s disorienting.
People are muttering about the economy, but seem to be going about business pretty much as usual. I’m sure there is more attention being paid to how much is being spent for Christmas, but a lot of folks don’t seem to be *too* worried about it. Like “this, too, shall pass”. We are making little cuts at my assistance, but even my husband doesn’t seem too worried. I may need to direct him here. We DID decide not to exchange gifts with his side of the family this year, mostly on his mom’s behalf. She spends way more than she can afford in an attempt to make sure everyone has a “good Christmas”. Lots of baggage there, and all we can do is make sure we give BACK to her enough to offset it. She agreed with the “no presents” this year, though. We are getting her into a lower rate, fixed mortgage though, now that the interest rates have dropped a bit. She needs it — just purchased her current home a few years ago and her finances are a mess. And that’s all I’m going to say. Fortunately, she does live right down the block from us, and DH’s brother is about 5 - 10 minutes away from here. The boys may grumble about it, but the consensus is that we take care of Mom.
My personal business (custom clothing, usually wedding, special occasion or costuming, and mending/alterations) is always a little slow this time of year anyway. It was slow this year due to a major source of referrals drying up, but I’m working on some other possibilities. I’m very close to putting fliers on all the doors in my neighborhood! (After the holidays!) It usually starts picking up around late February/March, so we’ll see how it goes. At least it’s a useful skill.
And I’m pretty sure I can teach it to others if I have to.
I’m starting to ramble now, so I’m going to bed. Right now, MN looks less shaky than other places, at least from where I sit. I’m still putting away staple food items (hard to do with my picky eater husband), trying to turn the temp down (65 during the day, but my hands need to work), and I need to plan my garden (withOUT taking out the shade maples in the back yard!). I’m on the waiting list for the community garden (up to 3 years!!), and debating making a pest of myself….ahhh, seeing if I can volunteer to help over there this summer and “learn more about gardening”.
Which wouldn’t JUST be a ploy to get on their good side — I’ve only had my own vegetable for the last 2 years, and I have a lot to learn about soil amendment, etc. Have to make a trip to the library soon, and check out the bike store, too.
Mostly, I get the feeling that folks are holding their breath and waiting for the other shoe to drop….
**Towels — that was it. We were trying to pick up some new bath towels for us while they were on sale. At least it was something *practical*!
I’m in a suburb east of Seattle and I think the slow-down is either slower to come or less intense here. It was very busy at Costco yesterday - as usual, and even more so today, although some of that could be explained by people stocking up on food, because it is supposed to snow tonight and snow around here is rare enough that it causes a lot of traffic trouble, especially because we have so many steep hills. And it has been *very* cold for the last few days so there will be ice under it. However, even though we do hear about some layoffs, and a few stores have closed (Linens n Things, a couple of Chili’s restaurants), it doesn’t seem to be a big problem yet.
Speaking of malls, we have two diametrically-opposed examples near here. One typical one has been moribund for years, only a couple of stores with outside entrances down at one end and the inside a wasteland.
The other one, Crossroads in Bellevue http://www.crossroadsbellevue.com/ is more like a real center of a community, it is so full of life and joy to visit. Every mall should be like this. Everybody knows that we are mad for books and coffee around here. Well, it’s got a Half-Price Books AND a Barnes and Noble, a Starbuck’s (one inside and one outside) and a newsstand with newspapers and magazines from around the world, a library branch, a mini-city hall, and the other day I noticed that there is a police precinct on an outside corner. The major treat is that all around the center are all kinds of international restaurants of the food-court style, but not one of them is a chain. And a public stage with free concerts every Friday and Saturday and often midday on weekends. And a giant chessboard, always busy and always with specators.
They host all kinds of community events, like a volunteer opportunities showcase on weekends down the hallways. They have a community meeting room that any non-profit organization can use free, so I go there twice a month for genealogy club meetings and then we all adjourn for lunch to tables in the center of the place. These events draw shoppers. This mall is busy all the time. If more malls were like this, I’ll bet not so many readers here would hate them.
There is also a Farmers Market outside but our farmers markets around here only last into mid- October. Obviously, part of that is because there aren’t a lot of fresh vegetables and flowers to sell after that, but there are a lot of other products that could still be sold, such as the soaps, honey, handcrafts, pasta, and dipping oils that I see in the summer, if indoor space was available. Clearly, some malls have space.
Laurie in MN: You said you are on a waiting list for the community garden for 3 years. It is great that you have a community garden but a shame that it can’t meet demand.
Laurie, call your city hall and ask who is charge of it (probably Parks Dept.) then make an appointment to see that person and ask if the city plans to expand the space available, or if the city owns any more land that could be used for this purpose. (Might want to take a friend along for extra support.) Make the case that the need is here, and the time is now.
If the answer is no, the time has come to make the case to the city council.
Another Australian -
Darwin is still in party mode - let’s buy another big ute, whoo hoo! Big Screen TV yeah! Exporting Iron Ore, Coal & Natural Gas will last forever, and makes a whack of money, so who cares if we’re importing 50% of our oil. I’m in the pearl industry and we’re expanding like crazy to supply the growing bauble demand from, er, somewhere (actually, Arabia, for now!).
On the other hand the neighbourhood shops are decaying. No point in walking to the local grocery store when we can drive to the big mega-mall for a great Chinese deal.
Aussies still talk about the drought as if it will break - somehow I think that if it is dry for 19 out of 20 years that’s not drought, that’s climate.
I was on my way to meet a friend last night and had the occasion to drive through the biggest retail center in this city. On one hand I passed one of the malls and several shopping centers, on the other even more shopping centers. The parking lots were nearly empty in several locations, and not even the mall was full. There were a lot of going out of business discount signs, and a couple of the centers were nearly empty. One had only two stores -Circuit City and Linen’s ‘n Things, and at least the latter is closing down. This is in an area that hasn’t really been hit yet -we’re known as one of the most recession proof areas and most of the jobs are government or contractors.
Pony:
Thanks for the suggestion. I actually got quite the low-down on the situation when I called to sign up. There has always been a perception of having to wait to get into the community garden — it’s been around since the 1940s, and is *very* established. But because there seemed to be new ground broken (or rather, newer plots being used) when I strolled through this summer/ fall, I asked if there were plans to expand, since there is actually quite a bit of land that isn’t in use.
There is not, due to the city suddenly deciding it was some sort of liability.
The garden is on the grounds of a local school with quite a chunk of land (for a residential city neighborhood) out back that isn’t being used otherwise. But, somehow, suddenly, the city has an issue with it. Their lease went from 1 page to 14, and they had to get a couple of MILLION dollars of insurance put on the place. 
This is actually one of the reasons that I want to get in there as a volunteer — so I can lend my voice to any protest that goes to the city regarding the restrictions that are slowly tightening around a real neighborhood resource. I mean, this place has a public flower/herb garden with pictures to show what’s where, and vegetable gardens that are used to donate food to the local food shelves. I can’t imagine what the city/school is thinking…
The GOOD news is that occasionally there will be plots that are deemed “abandoned” (allowed to get overgrown with weeds, no response to reminders to tend, etc.) that are then given out to people on the list who want to take the time to clean them up.
A woman I talked to this fall — who was walking back from HER fall cleanup while I was working in my front yard — got her plot that way. So there is hope! It’s just frustrating that the city can’t see the worth in what they have.
But thanks for the suggestion! I might be back at some point asking for help if we do have to worry about its future!
Laurie, what your community garden needs is LOTS of positive publicity, articles in all sorts of newspapers and club bulletins about how wonderful it is, interaction between the gardeners and the students in the school -and their parents, talks to the Kiwanis, any way to raise its profile. Then the town council would be embarrassed to fail to support it.
And there must be a way around that insurance/liability issue.
I’m in Utah. Drove by the indoor Mall yesterday and it looked packed.
Went to the outdoor, mega ambiance, where all the rich kids go mall where Williams Sonoma is located. Williams Sonoma was doing a decent trade. There were a very few items on sale. People were purchasing full price items.
I simply drooled. My Mom bought. But she bought with cash.
The Gymboree there had an extra 25% off of everything in their store.
I have yet to see 70% off sales. One local craft store had 50% off Christmas decorations.
On weekend nights you can drive by Applebees, etc. and they are mobbed.
I did see one house for sale that read ’short sale’ in bold red letters.
Utah tends to be the land where keeping up with the Jones’ is gospel, the size of your house equates your worth in the eyes of others, and credit cards are maxed out at alarming rates though too.
One store at our local mall that seems to be doing a booming business is the Bath and Bodyworks- I see tons of bags being carried around and there is generally a long line even though they have several cashiers on duty. That and Chick Fil A.
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